Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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badge privilege

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T354117

I see the following on my page heading:

Congratulations! You are now eligible for The Wikipedia Library.

Click here to browse a wide collection of free reliable sources.

But when I 'click here' I see a button to login, but then get a error message:

Sorry, your Wikipedia account doesn’t currently qualify to access The Wikipedia Library.

Help!

John Wheater (talk) 14:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@JohnWheater would you try to access the link from this page, then try to log on? Be sure you are not blocking scripts or cookies. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

No, thats the very page that gives the error message when I click login John Wheater (talk) 15:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@JohnWheater: You need to have made >=10 edits within the past 30 days. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

So why the "congratulations" ?? John Wheater (talk) 09:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@JohnWheater: No clue, sorry! You might get more information asking at the Wikipedia Library talk page; @Samwalton9 (WMF): in the hope that they can shed some light. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

• I've opened a bug on this behavior at phab:T354117. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

  I believe that the Echo/Notifications message triggers when you make your 500th edit. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:58, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for filing the ticket. We're only checking overall edit number and tenure, not the block status or recent edits, as these were harder to engineer and only impact a small number of users receiving the notification. We're unlikely to stop sending to users who are blocked somewhere due to the ambiguities around blocks and our willingness to allow some blocked users to use the library, but recent edits seems feasible to address. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:36, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow, mobile browser editing really is bad

My usual device is not working, so I tried editing off of Safari (I did sign up for the NPP backlog drive, after all). Genuinely unusable. Probably going to take a break until it's fixed. DrowssapSMM 22:41, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Calling @Folly Mox, who knows about editing on the mobile site. Unfortunately, there's no central noticeboard or other page where mobile-based editors congregate. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

If Talk:List of stores that sell laptops wasn't a redlink that would be the obvious choice. jp×g🗯️ 10:42, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

My experience (as a frequent iPhone user) is that m.wiki is very good for reading pages (better than Vector is on desktop, actually), serviceable for copyediting and projectspace discussions, and very bad for expanding articles (no tools like ProveIt for citations, and switching between the article and the sources is harder with mobile browser tabs). Vector 2010 holds up surprisingly well for editing, seeing as it wasn't mobile-optimized at all, but is a much worse reading experience. Mach61 (talk) 03:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

(responding to ping) I do like the mobile web experience for the most part, and don't really find any part of it particularly burdensome or uncomfortable. I've been a fully mobile editor since the death of my last computer in summer 2022, but I must confess almost complete unfamiliarity with most advanced editing tools. I've never applied for the NPP perm, but having a look at Special:NewPagesFeed just now, it seems essentially identical between Minerva and Vector 2022.

There are, of course, some tasks that are more difficult: I can't run two browser windows sidey-side with a source in one and an open editing interface in another, but it is a bit more convenient that I can hold my phone flat against the opposing page of a physical book if I'm using one of those. Most scripts don't support Minerva, so I'll have to hop into desktop view if I want to use Rater or Prosesize or many functions of Twinkle, and the limited RAM of a mobile device has led me to uninstall scripts that have some utility because the additional javascript load times weren't worth it. And of course the input is typically a bit slower on a cell phone keyboard than the usual kind, but the predictive text helps to an extent (I never have managed to figure out swipe typing).

Essentially though, genuinely unusable is so nonspecific and unactionable that I don't know what to say or how I could help. This reminds me of another recent complaint at VPI, which suggested the mobile frontend was "uncomfortable" without specifics or further elaboration. That's not a way to get functional help or to suggest software improvements. User:DrowssapSMM, I hope your computer gets fixed soon, but do you have any examples of specific tasks you were unable to complete using your mobile device, and what it was in particular that made them impossible for you? Folly Mox (talk) 12:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@Folly Mox I edit a lot on an Android phone and find that I keep changing between different interfaces, voluntarily or involuntarily, to get different functionality: If I want to look at an editor's contributions I have to get their user page, opt for "Desktop view" and then look at the contributions list. If they haven't created a user page ... I have to find something they've edited, find a version which gives a "contribs" link alongside their username as part of the diff, etc. There is one ghastly state I sometimes fall into where the font size increases with every keystroke so it's very soon impossible to do anything at all and I have to abandon the edit.

It seems impossible to contribute to some talk page discussions, I think Wikipedia Project talk pages mostly, though I can contribute to article and user talk pages. If I want to add to the end of the automatic edit summary after doing an "undo", I often struggle to scroll along to its end, if it's longer than the input box: sometimes it will move, sometimes not, possibly dependent on what scale Ive zoomed it to.

It's altogether a somewhat unpredictable and stressful experience, but I keep on doing it because I can use the phone in places where I don't have my computer, such as sitting on the sofa, semi-sociably half-watching something on the television. PamD 17:08, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

PamD huh, I have encountered zero of those problems using Firefox on Android with "advanced" mode in my mobile preferences. Contribs are available at the page header of User: and User talk: pages, I can tap "read as a wiki page" to view and edit Wikipedia talk: conversations, and my typeface size has never increased outside a pinch zoom. I could see an Undo diff preview being uncomfortably long, but have never had a problem getting the screen to scroll. Folly Mox (talk) 17:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, I use Firefox on desktop but Chrome on phone. Perhaps I should try Firefox on the phone. PamD 18:08, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

You might find this page useful: User:Cullen328/Smartphone editing. I do a lot of editing while mobile (such as now!) and I find the desktop version of Vector 2010 to be the best interface for it. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 17:26, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I mean, maybe, and I'm not sure of any other high profile mobile editing user essays, but the takeaway from the linked essay (briefly: desktop view, landscape orientation) is the exact opposite to how I edit, and I get on fine. It's really up to personal preference (and Special:Preferences) except in some edge cases, like viewing navboxes or the source of a fully protected template. Folly Mox (talk) 03:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Mobile editing is terrible, but for me even mobile reading (Samsung Galaxy A50, Chrome) is nearly impossible since a few weeks. And then there are the strange things on Mobile view even when seen on a desktop. E.g. the right side of the translate box at the top of this is a clear "show", while the same in mobile view has a "show" which for some reason fades out to the right. The watchlist in mobile uses way, way too many lines (4 or 5 per entry for no good reason), where "thank" is a too big button and "rollback" is a lot smaller and without a border (on desktop view they are nicely aligned and formatted).

This is simply brilliant. Above the diff, it shows the legend: "Content added" in a blue box, "Content deleted" in a yellow box. Below, the actual diff, shows content added against a green background, and content removed against a red background. Phew, good thing I had the legend... Oh, but perhaps because I look at it in Wikitext and not in Visual? Er, no, when I make that switch, the added text is shown against some green-bluish hue, not the same as the "content added" box at all, and the removed line is no longer visible.

Editing? I can't edit a complete page in mobile, if I use the "edit" pencil at the top I only get the lead. E.g. swapping two sections is not possible (or at the very least not intuitive) this way. Doing this in desktop mode is straightforward. Doing all this also reminded me of one of the reasons why Visual Editing is such a pain in the ass. Changing a short description in wikitext is "click edit, change shortdesc, save". Doing this in VE is "click edit, scroll up (!), click short desc icon, click edit again but now at the bottom, change shortdesc, save, save again because you only "saved" the template change". Fram (talk) 19:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I use to edit using the mobile version on my phone a lot. ... no longer do so...instead I switch to desktop mode on my phone. There is a link at the very bottom of every page to change to desktop view and back. Moxy- 20:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

There's a script that will force the desktop version as well, useful if you're googling something and end up following a link back to Wikipedia. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 01:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

An "edit full page" option for mobile was added a few months ago, in the vertical ellipsis menu in the upper right, with the rest of the page tools. Swapping sections seems pretty identical (cut-paste). I don't see the same blue / yellow legend boxes in inline diff mode, which might be the result of a user preference. Folly Mox (talk) 03:18, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I get the exact same look when I log out, so not the result of a user preference. Fram (talk) 09:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

After checking the linked diff logged out in three separate browsers, I haven't been able to view the "content added" / "content removed" legend in either source or visual mode, so it doesn't seem like it's one of my user preferences either. Folly Mox (talk) 12:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the legend hides if your device is 1000px wide or smaller. Which may explain why it hasn't been noticed that MobileFrontend overrides MediaWiki core's diff colors but not the colors in the legend. Compare this desktop diff (again, in a browser with a width >1000px) where the legend and colors do match. Anomie⚔ 12:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Seconding the concern that editing pages on mobile in Firefox gives a bizarre situation where editing the entire article only gives you the lead section. I figure this might be some weird user preference but it always annoys me a lot. In general, the mobile editing experience leaves a lot to be desired, although I'll confess I do not have a lot of concrete suggestions. It does seem like the mobile website downplays the editor-created nature of the site a lot (i.e. history and the like are often hidden). jp×g🗯️ 08:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

JPxG, the edit pencil at the top of an article opens only the lead. "Edit full page" is collapsed inside the vertical ellipsis menu in the upper right, along with Special:WhatLinksHere, Special:PageInfo, et al. This is a recent change (feels like second two thirds of 2023; I'll see if I can find the date). Folly Mox (talk) 12:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

1 August, as part of MediaWiki 1.41/wmf.20, pursuant to phab:T203151, but apparently this option is only available if you enable "Advanced" mode in Special:MobileOptions. I think not having this mode enabled probably severely cripples the editing experience (link anchored to "1 August" above has the deets). Folly Mox (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Computer is fixed, so it doesn't really matter all that much anymore. I just couldn't deal with mobile diffs. DrowssapSMM 12:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Inline diffs can be um challenging to parse sometimes (scroll down in the linked mobile diff for the fun part). Folly Mox (talk) 13:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Displaying some Wikipedia mobile view anomaly

Screenshot added. Also note the ridiculously large footer (which extends further to the right than the actual page, poor layouting once again) Fram (talk) 12:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Illustrate a mobile view anomaly on Wikipedia

Another screenshot, showing the weird "show" (bottom right) fade out. Very artistic. Fram (talk) 12:28, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Separately from any issues with it, the mobile view has the appearance of something that is a decade or more out of date. I would hope the WMF are working to consolidate around one appearance that scales across devices and different screen sizes. Working on each separately at this point would be a waste of resources. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I share that hope. Having one or more giant screen, with a keyboard + mouse input setup, and the ability to have multiple apps open in a single view, is a fundamentally different experience to a vertically oriented, cramped, "one app at a time", "long-press contextual menu instead of shortcut keys", "keyboard input necessarily occludes a non trivial portion of the screen" kinda situation.

Also there are pretty big differences in system resources. I really should replace my phone soon, but my device memory is such that even if most gadgets and userscripts were supported in Minerva I'd still disable them due to the overhead of loading all the javascript. I only enable Twinkle if I have to restore an old revision or AfD an article.

I'm sure that Minerva probably looks old and busted viewed full screen on a desktop monitor, but on a mobile device it does a good job giving the page contents most of the screen real estate and keeping the other elements out of the way until needed. Folly Mox (talk) 18:00, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Minerva probably looks old and busted viewed full screen on a desktop monitor – before Vector 2022, before even Wikiwand, I understand that how to switch to Wikipedia's "secret" mobile view periodically made the rounds on social media. Reportedly, people thought it was easier to read. It's not my own personal favorite, but that doesn't mean those people are wrong. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:02, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

It's altogether possible that what looks "fine and normal" to me actually looks a decade or more out of date to younger eyes. That probably applies to most of the things I own and uh me. Folly Mox (talk) 23:21, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Shaping the Future of the Community Wishlist Survey

Hello community,

Thank you for participating in the Community Wishlist Survey over the years.

We are also grateful for your feedback about the survey and your patience in waiting for a response.

We have reviewed your feedback and made preliminary decisions to share with you.

In summary, Community Tech would like to develop a new, continuous intake system for community technical requests that improves prioritization, resourcing, and communication around wishes. Until the new system is established, the Community Tech team will prioritize work from the recently audited backlog of wishes rather than run the survey in February 2024. We are also looking to involve more volunteer developers in the wishlist process, beginning with the first-ever community Wishathon in March 2024.

Please read the announcement in detail either on the Diff blog or MetaWiki, and give your feedback.

The new intake system will need your ideas and involvement, and we’ll reach out on this topic in the next few months.

We look forward to hearing from you.

–– STei (WMF) (talk) 16:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia has ORed its modern history periodization

English Wikipedia has more or less invented a non-existent term called the "late modern period" and seems to be basing it's top-level categorization of historical topics on it. I started a thread about the matter here:

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject History#Modernity articles are a hot mess

I urge editors familiar with modern historiography to join in. I think this is a sign of a pretty serious deficiency in our treatment of historical topics. Peter ^Isotalo 20:46, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I have replied at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject History#Modernity articles are a hot mess. I would urge everyone to keep the discussion in one place. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

New piechart template (graph replacement)

Hi. I created a new {{Piechart}} template. You can use it to replace graphs of type=pie.

Example chart:

1. sweets: 5 (45.5%)
2. sandwiches: 3 (27.3%)
3. cookies: 2 (18.2%)
4. drinks: 1 (9.1%)

Birmingham languages:

1. English: 866833 (84.7%)
2. Urdu: 29403 (2.9%)
3. Punjabi: 21166 (2.1%)
4. Bengali: 14718 (1.4%)
5. Pakistani Pahari languages: 10827 (1.1%)
6. Polish: 8952 (0.9%)
7. Somali: 8139 (0.8%)
8. Chinese languages: 7807 (0.8%)
9. Other: 55541 (5.4%)

Documentation is here: Module:Piechart/doc#Labels_and_Legend. The charts are inspired by Lea Verou CSS charts. They should be fully accessible as long as you add the legend meta-option. The pichart module is also independent of any extensions (like the currently broken Graph extension). All graphs from the Module:Piechart are simply HTML with just a bit of CSS tricks. Nux (talk) 16:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

VPuffetMichel (WMF): Is the Editing team still looking at graphs? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:05, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing Not the Editing team per se. I will share with the group who is working on this. Thanks! VPuffetMichel (WMF) (talk) 10:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

How does this improve on {{pie chart}}?-gadfium 00:54, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gadfium Various ways make it better, which probably come from the fact that it's a module:

• You can just provide values for the module (don't have to add labels), and it will just work. See examples on module:Piechart and some more on pl:Module:Piechart/test.
• You can provide actual numbers, and percentages will be calculated for you. Graph extension module had this, but Pie chart brakes in weird ways when you provide it with numbers larger then 100.
• You can reorder slices easily e.g. to sort them by value. So should be easier to update when data changes. Templates have to enumerate each parameter, in JSON which my module uses this is not needed.

Also, I didn't know about the Pie chart template (: So I just found out... Visually, it seems to be on par with my take. Most of the things I talked about come from calculations I do under the hood. I must say that it is weird the Pie chart template wasn't mentioned when the Graph extension failed (or I missed it). Still, it seems I got some interesting results starting with a completely different approach. I have already replaced some usages of the Graph extensions with the new module. From what I can see, my version is more stand-alone (it doesn't use image classes), more flexible (easier to place in different parts of the page), and more accessible too (the legend is just a list, making it usable for screen readers). Nux (talk) 01:49, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

You may want to add yours to {{Graph, chart and plot templates}} and Category:Graph, chart and plot templates so it can be easily found.-gadfium 01:52, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikiproject Inca Empire

How about a new start for WikiProject Inca Empire. It never really went up, huh? Well I think there are enough Inca/Andes interested Users to get that thing rolling. Are there though? Anyway I just wanted to ask if anyone was interested in instating some minimal organization, like on the other WikiProkects. Cheers. Encyclopédisme (talk) 03:04, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@Encyclopédisme, you might find WP:REVIVE useful. The first and most important thing to do, if you want to revive Wikipedia:WikiProject Inca Empire, is to find editors who are already editing relevant articles and make friends with them. Find ways to help them out, and then ask them to watchlist the page (as a favor to you). WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:35, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Central banner for a Commons contest to photograph the culinary diversity of Bengal

A photographic contest is going to happen from 15th January, 2024 to 14th February 2024 on Wikimedia Commons to enrich the photographic content Bengali culinary diversity and a central notice request has been placed to target English Wikipedia users including non-registered ones from Bangladesh and the Indian states of West Bengal, Tripura, Assam, Sikkim and Jharkhand. Thanks. -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 06:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)