This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, purge it.
Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below).
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.
Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot.
Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
Hook should make sense grammatically.
Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.
Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)
For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue.
Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
Check that there's a bold link to the article.
If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom
Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
At the upper left
Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage
Change |passed= to |passed=yes
At the bottom
Just above the line containing
}}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->
insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom.
Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue[edit]
Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
View the edit history for that page
Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
How to move a nomination subpage to a new name[edit]
Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.
... that six years after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her mother and a judge friend both committed suicide? Source: But on Aug. 10, 2022, Connie Land committed suicide with a single bullet ending her misery. Then, on Jan. 20, Andress-Tobiasson, 55, joined her friend in death when she shot herself at her $2 million Vegas mansion. [1]
ALT1: ... that after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her family publicized the unsolved case on digital billboards? Source: Since the killings, the Land family has spoken to local and national reporters, and even placed Sydney’s portrait on electronic billboards in the Las Vegas area. [2]
ALT2: ... that a Las Vegas judge who was forced to resign over her involvement in the investigation of the shootings of Sydney Land and Nehemiah Kauffman later committed suicide? Source: A former Las Vegas judge who resigned from her elected position in 2021 to settle a state ethics and discipline investigation has died, according to authorities. The Clark County coroner’s office confirmed Saturday that Melanie Andress Tobiasson, 55, died Friday from a gunshot wound. The coroner ruled the death a suicide, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. [3]
Comment: Although I submitted 3 hooks, I support the promotion of either ALT0 or ALT2, being that they appear to be more compelling than ALT1. On second thought, I think each hook has its merits, so I have no preference. StonyBrookbabble 14:15, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article meets new requirements at the time of nomination and is long enough. Citation is verifiable and I see no glaring errors in the article. Good work! I recommend ALT0, but suggest changing the details a bit to specify that the judge was related to the case (which makes the events more shocking): "that six years after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her mother and a judge involved with the case both committed suicide?" Panini!•🥪 19:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for that review Panini! Based on your input, may I propose the following for ALT0, with slight stylistic changes (feel free to provide any additional feedback): ... that six years after Sydney Land and her boyfriend were shot to death, both her mother and a judge friend who got involved in the investigation committed suicide?StonyBrookbabble 08:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Approve the modified alt. Kudos for tackling such a subject! Panini!•🥪 19:58, 22 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron, Panini!, and AirshipJungleman29: per the feedback at errors, I went ahead and excised the deprecated sources from the article, and modified the text to reflect existing sources. If you examine the above diff, you will see that I also added some information, such as regarding the manner of death, and related events that occurred on October 8. Regarding problems raised with the hook, may I suggest the following modification to ALT0, which is also under the character limit: ... that six years after Sydney Land and her boyfriend were shot to death, both her mother and a judge friend who took an interest in the investigation were found dead of gunshot wounds?StonyBrookbabble 03:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StonyBrook: I would venture that the Toronto Sun is, as a sensationalist tabloid, also not a reliable source. I'd also be concered about whether the incident is notable if it doesn't have significant non-local coverage in RSes, but one thing at a time. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
While I am not from Canada, it is not at all clear to me that TS should be characterized as a tabloid instead of simply as a broadsheet. I don't think it would be correct to place it in the same basket as the British tabloids. After reading Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 265 § Is Toronto Sun a reliable source?, I don't see any indication there that TS cannot be used for regular news reporting. There is probably a good reason why TS is not listed at WP:RSP, and not even mentioned at WP:THESUN for that matter. And most of the facts presented in this source have been reported in other sources cited in the article. StonyBrookbabble 05:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: Does the above satisfy your concerns? If not, what else needs to be done to get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 03:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720: I would disagree with StonyBrook – the lead of Toronto Sun describes it as a tabloid, reading the source article and front page of the Sun also point towards it being tabloid journalism. It is part of The Sun media network, and I don't see a reason to reject the null hypothesis that it's just as unreliable as the rest of them. On a direction-of-the-project level of thinking, I certainly think that crime should be one of the last places where we indulge the media's desire for "if it bleeds, it leads". So for me, I don't see how I could approve this with the paper still in the refs section. If that's not doable, then i'm happy to let consensus decide if the article can pass as is. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: If you are concerned that the source should not be used on Wikipedia in circumstances like this, please open a new thread on WP:RSN so others can comment and consensus can be reached. If there is a concern about the direction of the project and if Wikipedia should have an article like this, please nominate this article to WP:AfD so editors can discuss its inclusion on the project. My hope is to get movement towards a resolution for this hook. Z1720 (talk) 18:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720: I don't think the burden is on me here – multiple RSN discussions have resulted in a consensus, listed at WP:THESUN, that this publication and its sisters are generally unreliable. The discussion above was about whether there might be a reasonable case to one-off IAR exempt, and I don't think there is at all. If the nominator wants to attempt to get more eyes on this discussion at RSN or WT:DYK, try and get a consensus to override me, I'm more than happy for that to happen. But when nominations stall over valid objections to content that are not fixed, I tend to feel that we should fail them. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As far as I am aware, the Toronto Sun is a separate entity from The Sun (United Kingdom), owned by different organisations, and have no editorial relationship with each other. Thus, I do not think WP:THESUN applies here. I looked through the WP:RSN archives and found discussion points about how the Toronto Sun is reliable for news information, but not editorial politics, although the consensus was not unanimous. My goal is to move this nomination along as either approved or rejected while avoiding WP:SUPERVOTE concerns: one way to do so is to get a consensus on RSN about this, but this is not the only way. Would you be willing to get additional opinions on the Toronto Sun's use in this article? Z1720 (talk) 02:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was just about to correct myself, but you beat me to the punch – yeah, The Toronto Sun isn't related, but it is still basically a publisher of tabloid journalism. I would still assert that it's not reliable, but a consensus isn't required to fail a nomination, it's required to approve one. I am of course happy for as many people to provide as many opinions as they would wish, and if I'm in the minority, that's all well and good. But if there isn't consensus to run it, I don't think it's reasonable to let it sit forever or pass it anyway. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't see anything here nor at the previous discussion demonstrating that there is no consensus for this article to be posted. The deprecated source that was originally at the heart of the problem has been removed long ago. I have argued at the top of this thread that The Toronto Sun is not listed as deprecated or even questionable at WP:RSP, and this point seems to have been conceded here. Even so, the haggling over TS seems totally beside the point. The article in its current form has no less than 18 other unique sources which verify the main points of the topic, and everything else seems to be technically WP and DYK compliant. StonyBrookbabble 03:31, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll concede that it's not explicitly listed, but again, this is tabloid reporting on a crime that occured in a different country. I am incredibly skeptical of reliability of, if not the entire publication (its local reporting seems decent?), then definitely this piece. Besides, WP:DYKG requires that cited sources are reliable, and this piece is certainly cited no small number of times. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
After reading the source again, I see that it mostly summarizes the main points of everything else that can be found in the other references. Since there are no earth-shattering revelations made there as far as I can tell, it can be removed with hardly a ripple caused to the article content. But since it involves more time that could be spent elsewhere, I'd rather be sure this step is actually necessary. StonyBrookbabble 04:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StonyBrook: I am not sure about TS as a source. If it can be removed I suggest doing it to remove concern and out of caution. I want to point out that I was familiar with the case of SL's murder but I did not know of her mother's death. I was surprised to read about her mother's death because it is somewhat unusual for women to commit suicide with a handgun. It looks like you really spent some time researching this article. Bruxton (talk) 20:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seasons Greetings Bruxton, and thanks for the kind words. CL's and the judge's recent deaths intrigued me as well, which is also what got me interested in writing this article in the first place. It wouldn't be too much trouble for me to remove the TS refs. While I defer to your and other's judgment on this, I would just like to point out that since I didn't use this questionable source, which has even more updated info along with verification of the judge's quote about suicide, I want to be absolutely sure that the apparently non-deprecated TS really needs to go. StonyBrookbabble 20:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Drive-by comment here. Fox News is yellow plus on WP:RSP, and I would want to see it removed from any nomination I review. I have no opinion on the Toronto Sun other than 'if you really want a second opinion on it then consider asking at WP:RSN'.--Launchballer 00:16, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There has been an active to delist any right-of-center or right leaning sources at WP:RSN. So I would not knock the usage of Fox News. That said, double check to ensure that it is a news article, and not an editorial or opinion piece. I would make the same recommendation for left-of-center or left leaning sources as well.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 17:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm more worried about the fact that this is a sensitive topic and that source is yellow on the perennial list (and this is coming from a regular Telegraph citer). Having read that Toronto Sun piece, yeah, it's got to go I'm afraid.--Launchballer 20:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Or how about ALT2a (to avoid having a pipe or using a redirect): ... that a Las Vegas judge who was forced to resign over her involvement in the investigation of the killings of Sydney Land and Nehemiah Kauffman was later found shot to death? StonyBrookbabble 20:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Michael Lewis accused the author of a competing book of "trying to torpedo" Going Infinite, comparing the rival author to convicted fraudster Sam Bankman-Fried? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/06/business/michael-lewis-going-infinite.html In a new book about the crypto bubble, Zeke Faux, a Bloomberg investigative reporter, recounts watching Mr. Lewis “fawning” over Mr. Bankman-Fried during an onstage interview at the Crypto Bahamas conference in 2022. (Reviewers, including at this paper, have compared the two books, giving the advantage to Mr. Faux.) When I mentioned this anecdote over lunch, Mr. Lewis leaned forward. “Here you have a person who’s written a book, and he’s trying to torpedo a rival book before it comes out?” he said. “That’s shocking. Talk about corrupt! So who do I think is more skeevy, Sam or him? I’d have to think about that.”
@Coretheapple: Thank you for nominating! Would a link to Number Go Up in the hook be a good idea? Or is it not worth it as it’s just a stub? Thriley (talk) 21:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good idea. I didn't notice that stub. Added. Coretheapple (talk) 22:52, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, it's 198 now. Thanks for taking care of it. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 14:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've added myself as second author based upon my writing most of the current text. This is the first time I've nominated an article I've expanded that was recently authored by someone else, so kindly advise if I've handled that correctly. Coretheapple (talk) 17:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Everything was handled correctly. You nominated the article less than a week after it was created. Thriley (talk) 04:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I wasn't clear, as I think this may have been the first time I ever nominated a new article that I hadn't created myself. Coretheapple (talk) 16:35, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
New enough, long enough. Hook's still quite long, I'd end it at "Going Infinite", and I probably would link that stub. No maintenance templates found and QPQ done. There are an awful lot of quotes here; fine in reception sections but I think you can put the Synopsis section in Wikivoice.--Launchballer 09:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Thriley and Coretheapple: I still think there are too many quotes in the Synopsis section. Can this be addressed?--Launchballer 11:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Coretheapple I've taken the liberty of rewording it myself. I'll probably have to call for a new reviewer, but do take a look.--Launchballer 19:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can another reviewer approve this?--Launchballer 23:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have changed the hook from accused to convicted. Since the nomination Bankman-Fried has been convicted of fraud. Thriley (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You really should add a reference in the article to that effect.--Launchballer 04:36, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Very good. Still need another reviewer.--Launchballer 04:52, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 ... that a reviewer of Going Infinite, about convicted fraudster Sam Bankman-Fried, felt that the book didn’t do an adequate job of telling "how this bizarre child-man was able to seduce so many people"? Thriley (talk) 05:12, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd favor the "torpedo" one. Has more pizzazz. But I guess Alt 1 is OK too, if that is the consensus. Coretheapple (talk) 14:59, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given that "Hooks that unduly focus on negative aspects of living persons should be avoided", ALT0 should probably be struck, since it focuses on Lewis trash-talking another author. I'm not sure if if could be rephrased in a more acceptable way, possibly by moving the focus to Lewis rather than his target? What do people think of ALT0a ... that Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, compared a rival author to the subject of both their books, Sam Bankman-Fried? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 21:40, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not bad, could do with some context as to who Bankman-Fried is for those unfamiliar. I've taken the liberty of moving your comment to the bottom of this for reasons of chronology. I propose:
Overall: Article was moved to mainspace within 7 days of nomination. 1800 characters of prose. Earwig picked up 1% of copyright violation, making it unlikely. QPQ done. I'm not entirely sure about the image used; it's an unofficial creation using a free image of a firefighter, but it does illustrate an example. The first paragraph is mostly unsourced, unless the one source at the end of the paragraph is supposed to encompass it. ALT1 is a better hook due to it being more specific but I wonder if you can create another hook that is less subjective. lullabying (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Hello, thanks for your review. Regarding the first paragraph, it is all cited from the source at the end. If you find the image to be inappropriate, it isn't necessary and I have no issue with not including it. As for a better hook, how does this sound:
Thanks for notifying me. What makes Pet Age a reliable source? lullabying (talk) 20:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: The the website says that Pet Age is a company focusing on the animal "supply, merchandising, and service market" and that it "explores current trends", so my assumption would be that it is aware of market trends. Since the majority of paper calendars seem to feature animals, I assume that they are aware of their main competition (being beefcake calendars) and their impact on the market. Considering the fact that the Australian calendar features firefigthers as well as animals, it falls within their purview as well. Di (they-them) (talk) 09:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for responding. I would change the hook to "Australian Firefighters Calendar" because the article is talking about a specific calendar being the world's most popular calendar. lullabying (talk) 03:58, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Is this hook ready to be approved? If not, what is still needed? Z1720 (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for the delay! I knew I was forgetting something. I think this should be fine and good to go. lullabying (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Di, I have to agree with lullabying that PetAge is not a reliable source. Companies as institutions can't be subject-matter experts, they can only be reliable in the general case if they are reputable or if there is evidence that their publications have strong, professional editorial controls and fact-checking. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, apologies for the delay. Since PetAge is not reliable enough for the DYK, I would like to propose we use ALT1 instead. Di (they-them) (talk) 01:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Di (they-them), as PetAge isn't reliable enough for DYK, the sentence it supports should be deleted from the article, along with its citation. lullabying, Narutolovehinata5, is there any reason this should not proceed with ALT1? If not, can this be safely given a tick? Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 as is may need to be changed as who knows if calendars will still be popular in Taiwan in the future (the guidelines discourage hooks whose truthfulness or accuracy may change in the future), but a reworded version would be fine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:08, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: Both hooks are sourced and mildly interesting but not compelling; I would like to wait for other eyes before promoting. Go ahead an add an image, if you'd like. — AjaxSmack 23:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Healy performing in Chile in 2017 I have added a reference for the only release not covered by WP:REPCITE and added an image to the article; I may do some more work on this in the morning.--Launchballer 23:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good point about WP:REPCITE; I suppose if they're all save one mentioned in the article text and the list does not claim to be exhaustive, then that should suffice. — AjaxSmack 00:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:REPCITE is giving me indigestion, especially since the discography is a new section. However, since the Spotify citation has all of her releases listed here and the discography is sourced in the article text, it looks fine. All other things look good to go. With the added image, hook ALT0 is more compelling, but since we have no idea if it'll be in the DYK, I'd still like to wait for more input on the hook. — AjaxSmack 14:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it's of any use, an early version of this nom had "... that aged 15, Georgia Twinn went viral on TikTok after lip-synching to a song named after a pornographic actress?" as ALT1, although I suspect that may go against the bit of WP:DYKINT that says "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks should be rejected".--Launchballer 11:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT2: ... that the TikTok success of "Hit or Miss" caused Georgia Twinn to develop hypervigilance? (this one's wikilinked under "more cautious and aware of the types of people that there are online", but the word does not appear)
ALT3: ... that prior to going viral on TikTok for "Hit or Miss" aged fifteen, Georgia Twinn wanted to become a forensic scientist?
ALT 2 has WP:BLP issues using a term appearing to be a diagnosis that is not in sources. ALT 3 is fine. ALT 4 is utterly trivial, but in a good way. User:AirshipJungleman29, what do you think? — AjaxSmack 02:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: An interesting article covering the long history of this musical establishment in a balanced way (more coverage of recent history, and something on current operations, would be great, but do not interfere in the DYK consideration). New / submitted in good time, quite long enough, well-sourced but no plagiarism found. Hook fact checked - the whole hook-related section is cited to one good-length article, in Italian, which I have checked. The hook is a little long, but allowing for non-counting of the bolded link and {pictured}, passes. It could be abbreviated, if needed, by mentioning only the name, or the designation "art museum" for the alternative home, but I see why both are desired. The picture is valid and properly used. Best of luck! SeoR (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@4meter4 and SeoR: hook looks good, nice work! Unless I'm hugely mistaken (and I very well could be), though, it seems that a large part of the article is sourced to an interim director of the conservatory, making the source non-independent of the article. If that's the case, the article does need a large restructuring. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:25, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh dear, that would be an issue, will study later today. It’s an institution of long standing so I’m sure it can be re-sourced if needed, but this would need work, yes. I will try to assess the degree of involvement of the mentioned person. Former staff are often good sources on such topics, but… SeoR (talk) 08:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don’t think there is a problem. If it were self published I would agree, but this is published in a monograph by an academic press and is probably the best published source on the school. The fact that it was written by someone associated with the school lends credibility in this case. Further, the content is in no way controversial so I don’t see how this would be incongruent with our our policies at WP:NIS and further I would argue WP:BESTSOURCES applies as this is the most detailed and most recent publication and the most substantial scholarly work anywhere on the school by an academic publication. If editors are concerned, you could bring it to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard but I sincerely doubt anyone will have a problem with using a scholarly published monograph written by a subject matter expert that is not self-published. 4meter4 (talk) 09:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The points made above have much merit, especially as the article does not lean solely on the source piece under discussion. So, on the one hand, Professor Iovini was a long-serving staff member, who headed the School for 4 years. On the other hand, he moved on >5 years ago, and is a respected academic / musicologist independently of the Conservatory. I think his monograph is probably a valid source. (Professor at the University of Genoa, critic, engaged with "La Repubblica" and " Il Giornale della Musica", and on RAI radio and television. Director of the "Paganini Centre for Research and Teaching", author of multiple texts. Holder of the "International Luigi Illica Award" for his musicological studies.) Indeed a distinguished figure. And yes, it is material that none of the points are controversial. Maybe one reason the article is light on contemporary information is that the author of the primary source was looking back before his time of involvement. SeoR (talk) 19:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: Have your concerns been resolved? If not, what needs to be done to get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@4meter4 and Z1720: This is only kind of here or there, but is the publisher really independent of Genoa Conservatory? I'm not convinced, but I also can't be sure. Regardless, I'm okay with non-independent sources being used where necessary – I've used secondary non-independent sources myself – but I don't know that I could get behind the vast majority of the article resting on a non-independent source. Academia is much cosier with conflicts of interest than we are, so I'm not confident that this is more akin to any other monograph than it is to self-published. WP:NIS was written on the assumption that secondary independent RSes define the scope and framework of the article, and NISes fill in the blanks where necessary. That's not what I'm seeing here – the article is well-written, to be sure, but this structure doesn't quite sit right. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron I know you are acting in good faith, but I think this is a misguided bureaucratic objection which doesn't serve the best interests of this article or wikipedia. There isn't really a verifiability problem here. The monograph is published by De Ferrari Editore which is a publishing house associated with the Genoa University Press and is a reliable academic publisher independent of the conservatory and not a vanity press. If I were submitting this to an academic review board for a PhD dissertation or journal article nobody would be raising their eyebrows at using a source like this in the context of a literature review; which is essentially the type of writing done on wikipedia (we summarize what sources say in published literature). Even if we were to consider this a self published source (which I don't), the writer is a subject matter expert and distinguished musicologist with a lengthy list of publications and would therefore pass the criteria for the use of WP:SELFPUBLISHED sources which states " Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications".
Further, it would be impossible to source the content in this article elsewhere with the other resources available online or at a library where I live, as the only other sources of quality (by that I mean detailed sources with big picture overviews published in scholarly writing) are all in Italian and offline and are out of print and would require physically going to a university/conservatory library in Italy to access them (if you can get permission). Unfortunately those sources are only available in snippet view in google books. Access is an important consideration. Lastly, I would strongly oppose removing the content as the result would be a horribly imbalanced article with large gaps in coverage, and strange sections with detailed accounts that lack context because the other sources tend to provide details over one particular person or time period in the school without providing a big picture overview and placing details into a larger context; or they give a very perfunctory overview of the school with large gaps. It would not be an accurate or well written article per WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. Again this is the WP:BESTSOURCE that is accessible on this topic. Not using it would be irresponsible and a bad editorial decision. I personally will not remove the source as it would result in a bad article. 4meter4 (talk) 18:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with that evaluation. There is no reason to believe the facts from the expert should not be trusted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Theleekycauldron: This has been sitting here for a while and I can certainly see your point, I'm inclined to agree that a) Pintacuda is a subject-matter expert and thus reliable, and b) the article is better for it being in there.--Launchballer 11:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Koyomi Araragi's narrations in Monogatari light novels and subsequent anime series led to his voice actor Hiroshi Kamiya to read all books to understand the character? Source: [1]
QPQ: - Not done Overall: Article was nominated within first 7 days of 5x expansion. Article is at least 1,500 characters of prose and is long enough. Wording is neutral but some sections are not sourced; are you placing sources after paragraphs? Earwig picked up 47.1% copyright violation, making plagiarism "likely." I think it's because some sections that cite interviews are worded too closely to the original. The hook is sourced but it doesn't seem particularly interesting... lots of actors end up reading the source material of something they're working on eventually so it doesn't seem unique. Can you suggest another ALT? QPQ is also not yet done. lullabying (talk) 08:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
I tried rewording the entire article. The only content that I kept similar to other articles is the role in novels. I can't think of a good hook.
ALT1: Koyomi Araragi's hair was reversed to symbolize his immature personality in the prequel novel Kizumonogatari?[2]Reply[reply]
Did you know Koyomi Araragi's thoughts are divided into three factions in the narrative of the Monogatari novels and anime?
Did you know Koyomi Araragi was not meant to start a romantic relationship with Senjougahara in the Monogatari series?[3]
Just a comment but I'd suggest not going with the last hook. It only appeals to anime fans and would require specialist knowledge of the Monogatari series. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: are you able to approve any of the ALTs above? If not, what needs to be done to get this article approved? Z1720 (talk) 01:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think ALT1 is fine, as ALT2 doesn't define what those factions are and ALT3 contains specialist knowledge. QPQ still needs to be done. lullabying (talk) 22:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, what makes Fandom Spot a reliable source? ScreenRant and CBR I can tentatively see, but not Fandom Spot. lullabying (talk) 22:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Removed Fandom Spot. I confused it with Chris Beveridge's Fandompost. Not sure about other sources but if you find them useless I'll remove them. Still, I think it's the reviewer's choice to what is the most appropriate hook. Thanks for the feedback.Tintor2 (talk) 23:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seems good to go. AGF on print sources. lullabying (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Tintor2 and Lullabying: per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, the article is required to be presentable before an appearance on the main page; however, it is full of spelling, puncutation, and grammar mistakes. The opening paragraph of the body, for example, is near-incomprehensible. Take the first sentence alone:
Across several changes in regards to the Monogatari light novels, Nisio Isin said that Araragi was meant to be a "stud" and abandon his desires and lose his propensity for love.tions with Araragi. "in regards to" is not English; how can you say something across several changes; what are the Monogatari light novels; "love.tions"; "and ... and"; what desires, what propensity for love; who is Nisio Isin??
I would suggest a substantial copyedit, either at WP:GOCE or from asking a copyeditor, because this article cannot be promoted in its current state. Alternatively, if you don't want to do that, this nomination will be rejected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment I tried rewriting most of the article and asked for a user to revise the prose. It'll take some days since these are some busy times though.Tintor2 (talk) 22:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No. Take the following three sentences: He divided the text and devoted himself to processing it in a form close to the narration. Frequent switching between monologues and narration mixes objective explanations with the feelings of the Araragi which brought him difficulties. The number of sentences was overwhelmingly large, so if there is a number of words that one person could speak in a day, which led to several problems during recordings of the anime. I have no clue what "processing it in a form close to the narration" means; the second sentence is incomprehensible; the third sentence contains a malfunctioning conditional clause. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that actress Junko Ikeuchi was known as the "Queen of TV Dramas" from the 1960s to the 1980s? Source: 別冊宝島2551 日本の女優 100人. Takarajimasha. 2017. p. 45.
ALT3: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after being recruited from Mitsukoshi's Nihonbashi store, where she worked at the kimono section? Source: as above
ALT4: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after their advertising staff noticed her working at Mitsukoshi's Nihonbashi store? Source: as above
ALT5: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after their advertising staff noticed her working at Mitsukoshi? Source: as above
Overall: Looks pretty good. I'm going to AGF on the ja-wiki print source and that the 新撰芸能人物事典 that Kotobank uses is an RS. Most of the info in Kotobank is corroborated in other sources in the article, so consider double sourcing some more of the major facts to be safe. Its hard for me to judge some of the other sources (CINEMAS+ ?) for reliability, so it'd be nice to get other eyes here. Also, for English speakers, is it clear that "20% Actress" refers to the audience share of her shows? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AjaxSmack (talk • contribs) 00:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AjaxSmack: The ref attributes the nickname to high audience ratings, so it's safe to assume 20% refers to audience share. (Though the comment would be moot if a different hook is chosen.) Also, when using {{DYK checklist}}, keep in mind that a preference for other hooks doesn't count as a eligibility issue for the entire nomination, unlike for example none of a nom's hooks being valid, and instead belong in the overall section. ミラP@Miraclepine 22:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry. I have edited the template to reflect that. I think the sourcing has no problems, but would prefer a quick glance from another editor. — AjaxSmack 14:20, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article needs a little work, plus the hook is poorly written. As per WP:DYKTAG, the "Legacy" section of the articleis too short and should be expanded or merged into another section. Also, the article needs to be checked for grammar. I did a quick readthrough of the article and noticed a lot of missing commas. Speaking of commas, in the hook itself, a comma is needed after "1933" and not needed after "two young girls". The second half of the hook is also missing "the". The article mentions the subject was the "picture of the year", not "image of the year" (which should be in quotes inside the hook). It should also be noted who recognized it as the "picture of the year". My suggestion: " ... that in 1933, two young girls(pictured) were the "picture of the year" at the Paris Salon?" –Dream out loud (talk) 08:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you... maybe I am not the right person to create Sher-Gil paintings. I will re-look. The hook is is not right. Newspapers of 1933 do not mention it. Whispyhistory (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Who will if you don't? Just learn from the feedback, gradually improve your technique, and keep at it. (I will try to have a look later) Philafrenzy (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Great work, exactly what was required. The facts, biographical and otherwise, are essential, but it is the critical commentary that lifts an article about a creative work above a banal recitation of those facts. Indeed, where notability is in doubt (it wasn't here) it is that critical commentary that proves notability. I should know, but I am not certain of the status of the announcement of the picture or pictures of the year at the salon. Our article on it and its derivatives is surprisingly short. In any case it seems to be an award of the jury and here is a link to a 1941 report that states explicitly that the painting received that honour. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:23, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's not very clear what "split identity" means. It sounds like it's referring to her dissociative identity disorder or something else related to her mental health, but I see from reading the article that it has to do with Sher-Gil's ethnic and gender identity. I'm not sure "split identity" is the correct phrase and it's not used in the article. The article uses the phrase "divided identity", but I'm not sure that's appropriate either. –Dream out loud (talk) 07:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Expansion is large enough and new enough, sourcing is good. No images except a fair use book cover. Hook is interesting, short enough, and sourced. Good work! ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:31, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seeing no substantial effort to address AirshipJungleman29's now two-week-old concerns beyond my own close-paraphrasing removal, I am rejecting this nomination. Sorry. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Gareth Knight, a devout Christian, was an occultist who ran an esoteric society of magicians? Source: Knight, Gareth (2011). "Lord of the Dance". I Called it Magic. Cheltenham, United Kingdom: Skylight Press. pp. 67–69. ISBN978-1-908011-15-2.; Decker, Robert; Dummett, Michael (2002). "Gareth Knight and the Servants of the Light". A History of the Occult Tarot. London, United Kingdom: Duckworth Overlook. para. 6. ISBN9780715647059.; Luhrmann, Tanya. "Speaking with a Different Rhythm". Persuasions of the Witch's Craft. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. pp. 66–69. ISBN9780674663244.
I do not have a way to access any of these books at the moment, but considering the hook serves as essentially a summary of the article, I would find it difficult to imagine it being incorrect, especially since it is clearly visible that the subject has published books about magic and Christianity. Accepting on good faith. Generalissima (talk) 21:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that a large majority of Jewish people in Liechtenstein left the country during the one-day unsuccessful 1939 Liechtenstein putsch, and most returned the day after? Source: https://historisches-lexikon.li/Anschlussputsch"In der Putschnacht flohen fast alle in Liechtenstein lebenden Juden in die Schweiz, sie kehrten aber in den Tagen danach wieder zurück"
ALT1: ... that during the 1939 Liechtenstein putsch, government councillor Anton Frommelt convinced the Nazi supporters to turn back and also blocked their telephone lines? Source: https://historisches-lexikon.li/Anschlussputsch"40 Nationalsozialisten Richtung Vaduz. Sie wurden aber vor Schaan, wo abwehrbereite Gegner versammelt waren, von Regierungsrat Anton Frommelt zur Umkehr überredet."https://historisches-lexikon.li/Frommelt,_Anton"Ein Jahr später, am 24.3.1939, war Frommelt massgeblich an der Vereitelung des von der VDBL unternommenen Anschlussputsches beteiligt. Er liess die Telefone der Putschführer sperren, trat den von Nendeln her nach Schaan marschierenden Aufrührern furchtlos entgegen und bewog sie zur Umkehr."
Not a review: Consider linking Anton Frommelt. On one hand, it may help reader comprehension, on the other, it may divert traffic away from the target article. Bremps... 22:18, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Long enough, well sourced, no copyvio, QPQ not required. Less than two days too old, but given that it is a first nomination, I think we can let that slide. I would tweak the wording of ALT0 somewhat. See below. Srnec (talk) 03:45, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that a majority of the Jews in Liechtenstein left the country during the unsuccessful 1939 putsch, but most returned the next day?
ALT0a: ... that a majority of the Jews in Liechtenstein left the country during the unsuccessful 1939 putsch, but most returned during the following days?
I've done some copyediting to address the close paraphrasing. That means that a new reviewer is needed to check for copyvio. Schwede66 22:48, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: The hook is not really interesting. References #3 and #19 both claim that it is "the oldest agricultural society in South Africa and Africa". The oldest on the entire continent! IMO, that is a far more interesting fact. Otherwise, well written article! P 1 9 9✉ 20:37, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@P199: thanks for the review and hook suggestions. How about ALT1: ...that Agri-Expo is the oldest agricultural society in Africa? Nathan121212 (talk) 13:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The article is long enough and was new enough at the time of the nomination and I did not detect any close paraphrasing. A QPQ has been provided. While she undoubtedly has had an impressive career, the currently-proposed hook probably only really appeals to a very specialist audience, opera fans who are familiar with the names involved.
I'd like to see more expansion to the article (right now it's just barely above the 1500 character mark), ideally about her personal life or interests if such information could be found. I would have proposed a hook myself had anything stood out, but the article is basically a filmography in prose form and doesn't really give any "hooky" information that would appeal to non-opera fans. If none can be found, then unfortunately the nomination could be failed for lack of a suitable hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I will happily expand but only next year, because of travel and company until then. I disagree with your evaluation of interestingness. The hook could stop at Bolshoi, and readers to whom that name means nothing would really be mislead. Everything else is extra. Any reader can understand that Gepopo is an allusion to Gestapo, and can get interested in why one person is both Venus and that character in the same piece. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just asking for an update on the status of the expansion, including if anything about her personal life or non-opera life could be found. If there's nothing else to be found the nomination will unfortunately probably be failed for lack of a suitable hook/hook fact. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I explained above about the interestingness of hook parts, and beg you to reply to those. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To answer your questions: I do not think that the Bolshoi significance will be obvious to non-classical music fans or broader readership, and the "Gepopo = Gestapo" connection is probably not going to be obvious either and assuming that readers will get the connection is probably overestimating their knowledge of the relevant subjects. As such, I don't think any of those elements or suggestions are suitable for hooks. I'm sure performing at the Bolshoi Theatre is a very big accomplishment, but in terms of hookiness to non-specialist audiences, readers may not get it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I try to explain (although I have little time):
I don't believe any hook has to be understand by all readers the same way, - with different levels of background, that's impossible to start with.
I didn't mention Bolshoi to make understood big accomplishments, but three other things: early achiever, choir background, coming from Russia.
Not mentioned before: I believe that a title such as Le Grand Macabre is interesting, period.
Ligeti, whose centenary was last year, will be a name people may recognize who just listen to daily news.
Even if not, I trust that our readers are curious to find out.
Again many words for the basic: "Did you know ...?" should bring things that readers don't yet know, but may want to know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Considering role hooks have consistently been among the least-viewed hooks on DYK (and this is backed by statistics, you can look at the stats posted by Theleekycauldron about it), I very much doubt that readers are curious to find out at least with these kinds of hooks. This of course does not mean that readers are wholly uninterested in opera performers, and I'm sure with the right hooks they will be encouraged to read about them and click, but it has been proven with statistics that hooks that primarily focus on their performances or roles underperform.
I have to stress this again, given that it has been a recurring theme among your nominations and work: you seem to be assume too much about the average readers' familiarity with classical music. They would definitely know who Mozart or Beethoven are, they would be far less likely to know who Ligeti is, and as someone who reads the world news on a daily basis he is not someone who reads the news daily is likely to recognize since his centenary came and went with relatively little mainstream news coverage. You have to understand that almost all readers of the main page don't have as much knowledge or background in classical music as you do, and thus what seems interesting or obvious to you may not be the case to others.
Making the hooks very reliant on specialist knowledge means they appeal mainly to classical music fans but this comes at the expense of appeal to general readers. As has been seen with the viewership statistics for several of your hooks over the years, this desire has not had the desired outcomes. This can be seen with how they almost always underperform among readers, an observation made by multiple DYK regulars; there are some exceptions, particularly if it's an image hook, but these are not the norm. Remember that not too long ago we had a whole RfC regarding the broad audience criterion, which was the result of one of your own nominations, and in fact the change in language (which was supported by most participants) was intended to prevent cases like this where the hooks were targeted only towards a niche and not the non-specialists.
This of course, does not mean that classical music hooks are not allowed, far from it, and I will be the first to defend your hooks if anyone ever suggest banning opera from the main page, but hooks need to have broad horizons and not assume too much from readers. They need to be easily understandable even to someone who knows nothing. Requiring hooks to only target a niche, when DYK's mission has always been to appeal to broader audiences, goes against the whole point of DYK. If there were two hook possibilities about an Italian opera singer named Mario Rossi, what do you think would readers appreciate more and thus want to know more about Rossi: the fact that he was the star of an opera that they never heard of before, or that prior to starting his opera career he served the Italian Army? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Our guidelines both state that hooks must be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest, and that nominators and writers should not assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject. The currently proposed hook, unfortunately, does not meet either of these. Given that there really doesn't seem to be anything in the article that is hooky to a non-specialist audience, regretfully I am marking the nomination for closure for a lack of a suitable hook. If there was one, I would have proposed one myself, and I'm still open to suggestions, but at the article's current state it just seems like a bad fit for DYK and is probably one of those cases where there's simply no hook to be found. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Should we a) discuss that on WT:DYK, or b) discuss the guidelines, or c) (low-key) I ask for a different reviewer? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:30, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would really suggest just letting this go. Not every article is a good fit for DYK and not every article has suitable hook facts; I can personally attest to this myself in which I have created or written multiple articles but did not nominate them for DYK simply because there was nothing there that was suitable as a hook. Take for example Yurina Uchiyama, which I nominated for DYK and which ultimately failed. Just like Uchiyama's article wasn't meant to be for DYK, other articles are also like that, and Nekhames's may be one of those cases. I can bring up multiple other similar examples from other editors, showing there is no shame in letting a DYK nomination fail, as well as proving the point that not all Wikipedia articles are meant for DYK, something that other DYK regulars like Epicgenius or Trainsandotherthings can attest to. Asking for a discussion regarding the interestingness criterion is almost certainly a non-starter considering how strong consensus was at the RfC. Again, as much as it would be disappointing, I would highly suggest you either withdraw this nomination or let it be failed and focus your efforts on other people and subjects who may have better hook potential. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:22, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I gave you three options. Here this very young singer performed one of the hardest roles, this double role in Le Grand Macabre, in the German premiere awaited since 1958 of the 1996 revised version, and I didn't mention any of that because of you, as seeemingly too opera-focused, and you think it's not interesting. Just say option a-b-c please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:07, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If I were you, I would choose A. Again, I'm not denying that she has had an impressive career, and I am not downplaying her achievements or efforts. The issue here, as has often been the case, is that the hook is too reliant on specialist knowledge to be interesting to a broad audience. The facts you gave, while undoubtedly impressive, are very specialist: only someone deeply versed in the realm of classical music would get and appreciate the context, and again, not all of our readers are like that. It is right there in the DYK criteria, under WP:DYKINT: The hook should be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest. Hooks that do not meet that criterion, regardless of subject (this applies not just to opera), can and should be rejected. And I am going to be honest here: a person who is not well-verse in classical music like you is unlikely to find the hook unusual or intriguing. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:22, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, the consensus at WT:DYK is overwhelmingly against the hook, even if the first two-thirds are removed. The nomination should probably be rejected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:22, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To recap, in the WT:DYK discussion, there was no consensus in favor of this hook. Indeed, Fram objected to the wording proposed above. There were two other proposals, one by Tamzin and one by Remsense (and since modified by me), which I am presenting here for reference:
ALT2 ... that Anna Nekhames played the dual roles of the goddess Venus and a chief spy in Le Grand Macabre with coloratura acrobatics that "seem[ed] to go beyond the vocal limits"?
ALT3... that soprano Anna Nekhames had to be "acrobatic" in her dual role as both Venus and the Chief of the Gepopo in a 2023 production of Le Grand Macabre?
Based on the discussion, and given how there seems to be more support for either suggestion than ALT1 even if there wasn't exactly consensus for either, it appears that the nomination will end up being closed, and there is some support from some editors regarding this, unless either ALT2 or ALT3 is agreed on. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:07, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I objected to ALT3 actually as being factually incorrect (she didn't "had to be" acrobatic, she performed vocal acrobatics). I objected to the to me weird word sequence "coloratura acrobatics" in Alt2, and in the article this has been changed to "acrobatic coloratura". I objected to the original hook, not against Alt1, apart from the fact that it is an utterly boring "singer performed" hook. If used, I would change Alt1 to "the dual role of" though, as it is a standard "double", not two separate roles she for some reason combined. Fram (talk) 09:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you, Fram, I was not aware of the slight difference in meaning. I am not in favour of ALT3 as "acrobatic" is downright misleading there.
ALT1 or ALT1a have the same issue as the original hook: it's not really interesting to a broad audience, basically being a hook that says that this person did their job. Indeed, if I am reading this correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong Fram), this is the actual objection. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(edit conflict) I don't think that we have to teach our readers - in the little space DYK offers - that Venus is a goddess, and opera singers don't only "play", and I believe that the Gepopo-Gestapo allusion is stronger than "chief spy":
ALT2a ... that Anna Nekhames performed the dual role of Venus and Chief of the Gepopo in Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre with "acrobatic" coloratura that seemed to go beyond the vocal limits?
I can approve ALT2a if the other editors who had concerns with the other hook proposals agree to it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:05, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To simplify things, I have struck the original hook, ALT1a (because there are several objections, to which I will add my own, about a hook that mentions a performance of roles at an opera house), and ALT3 per Fram's concerns. My problem with ALT2a is that it takes ALT2's quoted "seem[ed] to go beyond the vocal limits" and leaves the text intact while removing the quotes, which is problematic on a number of levels for a decent translation of the review in question (thus requiring quotes), not least of which is that it ignores the "almost" (the German word "fast") in the translation of that particular part of the review ("scheint fast die stimmlichen Grenzen zu sprengen"). In English, we would omit "the" in this situation as well: "vocal limits" rather than "the vocal limits". Perhaps a cleaner version, honoring the wording of that review and the "Koloraturakrobatik" (coloratura acrobatics) of the other one, can be made:
ALT2b: ... that Anna Nekhames performed the dual role of Venus and Chief of the Gepopo in Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre with "coloratura acrobatics" that "almost seem[ed] to exceed vocal limits"?
Translation is an art, and I may have missed some nuance; doing a bit of fine tuning may be appropriate to my proposal. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:05, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a comment. Per WP:WATERMARK, the image's watermark should be removed (definitely before it hits the main page). Fortunately, it seems to be a simple crop job. Bremps... 01:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Full review needed now that image watermark has been removed. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:08, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment:@BlueMoonset: From what I’m seeing, it tends to be the picture that causes the delay in review. I guess somehow the reviewers are having higher expectations for articles with a picture. If that’s the case, I want to let you know that I’m fine with the article being promoted without the picture. Thanks! Đại Việt quốc (talk) 11:23, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Long enough, new enough. Hook short enough, interested, and cited - though it took a while to find it, and I'm not even sure what you need pdf0i007 for in that hook. (There's much noise at WT:DYK regarding the use of 'first' hooks - I think the World Bank would know where its money went, so it's fine by me.) No maintenance templates found, no copyright problems found, no neutrality issues found. QPQ unnecessary and image Creative Commons. The reflist rides at the sides due to the images/infobox - any chance you could do something to stop this?--Launchballer 21:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: The original DYK nomination for this article failed because of an ongoing AfD discussion prompted by lack of references. I have since substantially expanded the number of high-quality references, so I think it's ready!
... that male Ameerega munduruku frogs are known to carry tadpoles on their back? Source: Neves, Matheus Oliveira; da Silva, Leandro Alves; Akieda, Paulo Sérgio; Cabrera, Rodrigo; Koroiva, Ricardo; Santana, Diego José (2017). "A new species of poison frog, genus Ameerega (Anura: Dendrobatidae), from the southern Amazonian rain forest". Salamandra. 53 (4): "We found one male (not collected) carry- ing nine tadpoles on its dorsum during the wet season (No- vember 2016)."
GA status verified, article long enough with full citation to reliable sourcing. No copyvio issues identified with sources and spot checking. Image is verified as main page compatible. Hook is verified and interesting. QPQ done. Looks good to go--Kevmin§ 17:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AryKun and Kevmin: Our hook says "known to" but the article only refer to a single instance of a male carrying nine tadpoles on its back. I think we need to show that it is common for us to use this hook. Bruxton (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I dont see an issue with this hook, we have a verified instance of a male carrying tadpoles, which is known in other taxa.--Kevmin§ 14:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, the hook says "it is known to", and it is evidently known to do this. The 15ish specimens from the description were all collected on three distinct dates, it's understandable that they didn't have tons of observations of breeding in the species. AryKun (talk) 08:59, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
AryKun If they are truly "known to" we should have other examples or studies. I do not want the hook to end up at errors. Bruxton (talk) 14:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, the paper cited (which is linked in the article and freely readable) says "We found one male (not collected) carrying nine tadpoles on its dorsum during the wet season", so again, they are obviously known to. From Cambridge's definition for "known to", "If something or someone is known to be or do something, people know that it is true or happens", which this case fulfills. The hook isn't extrapolating to say it's common or anything, just that it is known to occur. AryKun (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
AryKun Thank you. I could be wrong so I will ask @RoySmith: about their thoughts on stating this claim in the hook. I am not sure if the case of this male carrying tadpoles is anecdotal. Bruxton (talk) 15:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It would be anecdotal ONLY if the paper stated something like "we have heard of this behavior but not seen". There is no way this would fall under the definition of "anecdotal".--Kevmin§ 15:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that "anecdotal" is the wrong way to describe this, but I can also see the argument that one observation does not support a "... frogs are known to" statement, which would imply that it's been observed by more than one frog and/or it's typical behavior. I think we'd do better with:
... that a male Ameerega munduruku frog has been observed carrying tadpoles on their back?
Also the definition of anecdotal is (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research. Bruxton (talk) 15:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alt 1 is the same as Alt0 with an unnecessary added level of handwaving. Also this account comes from a peer-reviewed research paper, thats kinda the definition of "research and facts".--Kevmin§ 16:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kevmin: We are trying to get a hook which will not be challenged as it goes along through DYK checks to the main page. I know it can be frustrating frustrating tweaking a hook but if it makes it to the main page and then get removed at errors - it will be more frustrating. Bruxton (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, I KNOW how DYK works after 450 noms in my tenure here. I also recognize when unneeded levels of FUD are bing placed on a hook. There is NO question that this behavioral practice exists in this frog species, unless you have sources that say otherwise?--Kevmin§ 16:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Exactly! The frog is known from specimens observed on three days, and it was observed doing this on one of these days. How many people do you think there are observing frog reproduction in the Amazon? This is also pretty common behaviour in frogs and so we have zero reason to doubt it; the researchers aren't exactly claiming that the frog was seen tap-dancing on it's front legs while dressed in a tutu. AryKun (talk) 17:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kevmin and AryKun: I am sorry that I have upset you both with my comments here. Another promotor will come along soon to sort out the nomination. Have a great weekend! Bruxton (talk) 18:07, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I realize that DYK has a lower bar than GA or FA, but we're still basically supposed to be saying what the sources say. If we have one report of one frog doing something, that's what we should say. If it's well known that this is typical behavior for this species, then there should be other reports of it and it should be trivial to add some additional references to those sources. RoySmith(talk) 21:50, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The species was described less then 8 years ago, so the assertion that other sources would document it ignores both the recent nature of the description and the slow pace of peer-review, its lucky that the article has images at this stage.--Kevmin§ 23:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't get the point you're making. We haven't studied it enough to have more than this one observation recorded in the literature, yet we're so sure this behavior is typical we shouldn't worry about stating it in wiki voice? You say There is NO question that this behavioral practice exists in this frog species. Based on what? WP:V is a core principle which can't be satisfied by having 450 previous DYK nominations. RoySmith(talk) 00:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no question based on the fact that it has been observed in the species. Cf ".. that humans are known to eat feces?". Perfectly accurate, since behaviour has been observed, regardless of whether it is common or not. I'm tired of arguing over this pointless issue, so whichever promoter passes by can do whatever they want to the hook honestly. AryKun (talk) 09:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
RoySmith You have not demonstrated that there is any data based reason to place extra restrictions on the verbiage of this hook. If you feel that the type description is faulty in its infarction, the onus is then on you to provide references that back that position. As of now the only argument that you have put forth falls squarely afoul of crystalballing ("but what if new data come out later").--Kevmin§ 19:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, what I'm saying is "the article should say what the sources say, and the hook should say what the article says. The source says "We found one male (not collected) carrying nine tadpoles on its dorsum". The article faithfully follows the source: "A male carrying nine tadpoles on its back has been observed". So that's what we should say in the hook. RoySmith(talk) 22:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
RoySmith, could you remove the question mark symbol? An alt hook has been suggested and none of us seem likely to change our opinions, so just let a fresh promoter decide whether the hook is okay or not. AryKun (talk) 15:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, I'm not going to remove it. If somebody else wants to approve it, they can and then it's on them to vouch for it being correct. That's the way it works. RoySmith(talk) 16:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You have yet to demonstrate that the alt hook is not accurate according to the CURRENT knowledge of the species. If your going to be obstinate about the subject, you need to show that something is missed, or your entire argument is boils down to you WP:Crystalballing.--Kevmin§ 17:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kevmin I've come back to look at this again and I'm still unclear on what you want to see happen. At first it sounded like you were arguing against using ALT1 and insisting on using ALT0. It was on that basis that I added my query. Now it sounds like both you and AryKun are OK with ALT1. If that's the case, it sounds like we're all in agreement to go ahead with ALT1. I know I suggested it, but Bruxton officially proposed it, so I think it would only be a minor application of WP:IAR for me to approve it. If that's OK with both of you, I'll go ahead and strike ALT0 and approve ALT1. But I'd like to hear from both of you before I do that so we don't end up in another rabbit hole. RoySmith(talk) 16:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't speak for Kevmin, but I am not okay with ALT1 in place of ALT0, I'm just tired of arguing the point. Just let another reviewer drop in and decide whether the original hook's okay. AryKun (talk) 17:17, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RoySmith: Just chiming in here since there hasn't been any comments in a while, but ALT1 is probably the best option here since ALT0 appears to be a generalization that is not supported by the article, while ALT1 does match the article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:52, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Ulama in Contemporary Islam: Custodians of Change
Comment: This is an interesting and complex topic. RoySmith often expresses concern about hooks that emphasize "firsts". I took a look at your source, and while it certainly supports the hook, I also took a look at two other reviews of the same book, none of which mention this "first". It might be helpful to consider alternate hooks because hooks that rely on "firsts" can often be problematic. I will await to hear from RoySmith to see if they think this hook is acceptable. Viriditas (talk) 22:39, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the ping. Yeah, we've been burned by "first"s before when it turns out somebody finds an even earlier example, so I think it's a good idea to just avoid them. Sometimes you can work around the issue with "said to be the first" type of language, but finding a better hook is often a better plan. RoySmith(talk) 22:59, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See for instance Khuri, Fuad I. (July 1987). "The Ulama: A Comparative Study of Sunni and Shi'a Religious Officials". Middle Eastern Studies. 23 (3): 291–312. JSTOR4283186. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:16, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Drive-by comment (not a review). Neither our article nor the source linked above claims that the translations were made by the US government. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Scout helicopters armed with SS.11 missiles were used in Hell Tank.
... that one British Army participant in 1967's Exercise Hell Tank, testing the use of helicopters against tanks, suggested the helicopters were 45-to-0 over the tanks? Source: 1st. the exact quote is "45-love"
Just a comment but I don't think linking helicopters and tanks is necessary here given they're common knowledge. Besides, ideally we'd want readers to learn about the tank and too many links may distract. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Other problems: - I think some alt's need to be explored here for the hook. The wording isn't particularly clear. The fact also only applied when tanks were in offensive maneuvers. Some areas that could be explored might involve these exercises leading to infantry carried SAM's as a standard part of warfare, or perhaps the shifting of the US stock of Cobra helicopters to those with anti-capabilities.
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: - Not done Overall: If the image is to be used, it needs a better caption to tie it to whatever hook is used. New QPQ still needed. New hook options needed. I've suggested some potential directions. Seddontalk 02:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ATL1 ... that a British Army participant in 1967's Exercise Hell Tank, testing the use of missile-firing helicopters, suggested the helicopters killed 45 tanks with no losses when the tanks attempted an offensive breakout?
@Narutolovehinata5: Also touched up the caption. I believe the image is from the phase 1 hell tank exercise (the E marking), but have not found anything that states that directly. QPQ is Empire of the Sultans. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that French historian Patrice Gueniffey called Ridley Scott's 2023 film Napoleon a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history? Source: “ And a biographer of Napoleon, Patrice Gueniffey in Le Point magazine, attacked the film as a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history.” BBC
Rejected Hi, Thriley. I wish I had good news for you after you've waited nearly a month and a half for this review. However, I must reject this nomination. It came on November 30, a full 10.75 days after the page was created on November 19 (rather than Nov 21, as listed on WP:DYKN). That's well outside the one-week window and beyond the one-to-two-day extension period permitted by WP:DYKNEW. I tried finding an exemption that would have allowed you to argue this was a 5x expansion, but this version existed more than ten days prior to the nomination. Sorry. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Pbritti: I actually moved the article from draft space at 15:28 on 21 November 2023. Thriley (talk) 23:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Thriley: Goodness, you're right—I missed this. I looked for something of the sort but must have just glanced over it. Give me a a bit to review the nomination again as I worry I may have missed other important details. I'm so sorry, Thriley, and appreciate you explaining the issue. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the Humboldt Wagon Road passed through four California counties, but went nowhere near Humboldt County? Source: Chang, Anita L. "The Historical Geography of the Humboldt Wagon Road", Association of Northern California Records and Research, 1992, p. 19 (source not available online)Mark, Andy, "Stories of the Humboldt Wagon Road", The History Press, 2020, p. 89: [6]
ALT1: ... that stagecoaches on the Humboldt Wagon Road could make the 400-mile (640 km) trip from Chico, California to Ruby City, Idaho in under four days, for a $60 fare? Source: Mark, Andy, "Stories of the Humboldt Wagon Road", The History Press, 2020, p. 29 [7]
Interesting article on California history. New enough (nominated on same day article was moved into mainspace); long enough (7180 characters). Well sourced and neutral. Earwig doesn't return meaningful results because most sources are books. Citation of multiple sources suggests there isn't a copyvio problem and spot check doesn't seem to indicate close paraphrasing. AGF on book source for hook...but my main nit there is that if you're citing Chang for the first hook (ALT0), shouldn't you also be citing Chang within the article for that one sentence lacking a footnote at the moment? Or are you citing Chang for only part of that hook because the second half of the sentence is common sense inference? The problem with ALT1 is that it is too "complete" – all the facts you need are in the hook itself and there is no reason to click further to answer the question / read the article. It appears submitter is a new to DYK and is thus exempt from the QPQ review requirement, though for future reference WeirdNAnnoyed, it would be helpful to indicate in the Comment section (or Review section) whether it's your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th DYK submission. (After that, you have to do QPQ reviews along with the rest of us.) So really just need clarification on why the sentence in the article corresponding to the hook lacks a citation at the end. Cielquiparle (talk) 09:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for feedback, this is indeed my first nomination so I apologize for getting some details wrong. The reason I didn't add a citation at the end is common sense inference, as you say. This can be confirmed by consulting a map; the trail's westernmost point was about 100 miles from the nearest point in Humboldt County. I have a paper copy of the Chang reference and can upload an image of the relevant page if that would help with documentation. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 15:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@WeirdNAnnoyed: No need to apologize at all! This is just part of the standard DYK review and bulletproofing process which continues all the way until the day the DYK runs on the main page, when thousands of people read it (and are liable to poke holes if there are problems). (In other words, we're just trying to identify and resolve any potential issues sooner rather than later, because if it happens on the day, the hook could get pulled off the main page.) In this case, I see that there is a Humboldt County, Nevada that gave the road its name (for example per this source) ("One of those connections was to mines in Humboldt County in Nevada, which gave the local road its name."). Maybe you knew that, but I didn't when I initially read the hook and article, so now I feel that ALT0 is problematic. That said, we could try a version of the hook that plays on the fact that there are two Humboldt Counties, going for the final slot which is often reserved for "quirky" or playful hooks (and hence allows for a bit more leeway):
What do you think? (If we were going to use that, we would have to make a couple of changes in the article itself.) In any case, could you try to propose at least one more hook, so the promoter has a couple good ones to choose from? Cielquiparle (talk) 17:00, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cielquiparle:: Thanks for that source, I had not found that one. It disagrees with the reference I have, which specifically names the mining district, but since the county was probably named for the mines it's not a major discrepancy. I really like your hook! I have edited the text of the article to make it more compatible with your suggestion; please let me know what you think.
@WeirdNAnnoyed: I made further edits (and added a different source) to resolve the issue, as I actually don't see it as a discrepancy. I'm just not sure if ALT2 will be accepted, but I am pinging @Lightburst: to see if they might be able to assess whether the hook would work? (I can't approve my own hook anyway.) Cielquiparle (talk) 04:13, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@WeirdNAnnoyed and Cielquiparle: ALT2 is confounding and does provoke interest. I instantly know it is a trick question but it does make me click and find out how it is possible. I think many people like to solve puzzles. So this road passes through a "mining district in Humboldt County, Nevada" but does not connect to "Humboldt County, California". I believe one line that supports this hook does not have a citation. The last line in route description. though nowhere near California's Humboldt County, far to the west on the Pacific Coast. Since this line is central to the hook, it needs to be cited per WP:DYKHFC. If we perhaps cite it with a map it may be obvious to the reader, and we hope it will not be considered WP:OR. Lightburst (talk) 16:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lightburst: Thanks for reviewing and for the suggestion for a solution. @WeirdNAnnoyed: Do you have a map clearly showing the Humboldt Wagon Road which illustrates the claim made in the ALT2 hook and in the article, which we could cite in the article? Cielquiparle (talk) 16:46, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cielquiparle:: Sadly no, the best I can do is this map: [8], which shows the Humboldt Wagon Road leading NE out of Chico, but does not label it as such. Is it OR to point out that the closest the road got to California's Humboldt County was Chico, which is about 90 miles from Humboldt as the crow flies? I tried to indicate that with the map in the article, but that's my own work based on references 1 and 2 from the article. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 23:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I found a map in one of the books referenced, which we could cite, but think we still need to reword the sentence accordingly. I might have time next week to track down the other book. Cielquiparle (talk) 22:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: This is my first time nominating the DYK. The article is about a square pyramid that, in one of the applications, may be used to construct a new polyhedron. However, I do think this hook may also be used in Pentagonal pyramid if this has already become GA in the future. Maybe someone can find an alternative hook other than the discussion in WT:DYK (see oldid=1186117126).
This is not a review but a comment, but I'm not sure if the hook as currently written would catch attention without illustrations or at least additional context. Perhaps David Eppstein could propose some additional hooks or give additional input here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks David. @Dedhert.Jr: If you don't mind, I've taken the liberty of striking the original hook and leaving just David's hooks for consideration. This is still awaiting a full review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that in 2023, Ralph Nader founded the Winsted Citizen newspaper in his hometown of Winsted, Connecticut, where he delivered papers as a boy? Source: “At age 88, Ralph Nader believes his neighbors in northwest Connecticut are tired of electronics and miss the feel of holding a newspaper to read about their town.So at a time that local newspapers are dying at an alarming rate, the longtime activist is helping give birth to one.Copies of the first edition of the Winsted Citizen are circulating around this old New England mill town, with stories about a newly-opened food co-op, a Methodist church closing after attendance lagged at services and the repair of a century-old bridge.“If it works, it will be a good model for the rest of the country,” said Nader, who as a youngster delivered a long-gone Winsted daily paper in his hometown. He splits time now between Winsted and Washington, D.C.“WBUR
Adequate sourcing: - overall well sourced. Need a reference for "On Nov. 20, 2023, the Winsted Citizen's oversight board voted to close the newspaper after publishing nine issues. In a memo, Thibault wrote the paper could not overcome an “untenable deficit” and lost money every month published" - E&P reference does not support.
Neutral: - I would highlight in the intro section that is also now has an online version. I would also add the current owner and the information about closure of the Winsted Journal and "news desert" from E&P reference
Newness and length: meets expanded 5 x and length criteria - javascript kit character counter shows that page was 878 characters on 8/19/23 before changes and is now 8075 on 1/6/24
General comments:
Was the paper founded in 2022 or 2023? categories show 2022 but article and hook say 2023
I prefer to state the facts rather than "It was reported.." or "... so and so made the announcement". Recommend to re-write
I don't think the detail of where the paper was announced is relevant - also, both references state that they are planning to announce on that date and place. Reference should state that they did. Recommend to remove excessive detail
similar comment about excessive detail for content section - "Stories in the paper's first issue highlighted the increase in water rates, a food co-op in need of support, the possible purchase of a closed Methodist church and its redevelopment. There was also a roundup of all the local breweries along with natural attractions and outdoor activities in the nearby Berkshire Mountains. “Weekend in Norfolk” was another feature article in the inaugural edition, with news and information about art, music, theater and dining" and "The first issue also included a profile of a local basketball coach, an article on a project to paint a five-story mural in two abandoned mill buildings and a contribution from Hartford Courant editorial cartoonist Bob Englehart" - so what... recommend to summarize or remove
@Thriley: I've completed my review. I think most of these issues are addressable. Please make these changes and I can approve. Thanks! Dwkaminski (talk) 18:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for your review. I’ll fix up the article over the coming days. Thriley (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: Wow! QPQ done, interesting and cited hook, lots of good sources in the article. Very nice job on this. I'd be ready to approve this now except that there's a few tone issues that I'll outline below. BuySomeApples (talk) 05:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are a lot of rhetorical questions in the article, but these should be avoided unless they're direct quotes.
Some sections read as POV if they aren't attributed to a source. We don't want to say that something is "often glossed over" in wikivoice, although it might be okay to attribute that opinion to a relevant source. Rewriting the article to be more encyclopedic and less conversational would probably fix most of this.
The "Contents" section probably needs to be trimmed a bit. Right now it's over 1500 words. Wikipedia:WikiProject Books/Non-fiction article suggests 400-700 words with an upper limit of 900 words. This part isn't necessary but I think cutting out some of the less encyclopedic bits might get you closer to this anyway. BuySomeApples (talk) 05:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@BuySomeApples: I've tried to chop it down some and make the tone a bit more formal. I'm used to some other areas of the wiki, where old books get extensively combed over for every last bleeding detail (e.g. Herodotus, Polybius, Josephus), so it was a bit of a surprise to see the modern non-fiction guidelines having such strict length suggestions. It's a little tricky to chop down to the almost "anthology" nature of the book on 10 different topics - I feel that we shouldn't just say "the authors discuss (topic)", but also say what exactly they're saying about (topic), yet that requires a bit of setup to explain what the authors are actually suggesting or raising as what they believe to be an important unanswered question. I'm already leaving a few of the topics just out entirely, too. Anyway, it's down to ~1200 words from ~1500, so still a tad over the limit, but eh, see above for why.
On questions: Quite a lot of those weren't intended to be rhetorical, but rather genuine unsolved problems where the answer isn't clear, and the authors are saying that we should really get a better answer before proceeding (e.g. ethical dilemmas). I have rephrased them, though, to make that more clear. SnowFire (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you! I'm going to take a closer look @SnowFire: but the tone already looks much better. Wikipedia usually doesn't pose questions directly, even if there are unsolved questions which I think is just a style preference more than anything. I might see if I can rephrase "Contents" a bit, usually its possible to crunch down details without losing much information.
Also, I know I said it already but good job with such a hooky hook. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:05, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK @SnowFire: I gave it an edit for WP:PERSUASIVE and WP:INFORMAL tone, and I think it looks pretty good. It brought the wordcount down to ~1000 too, so that's nice. I'm gonna let someone else take another look at this just to make sure its up to par since I'm now a significant contributor. BuySomeApples (talk) 00:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that The Connor Brothers were believed to be two twenty-something artists from Brooklyn, but were actually two British art dealers from London? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-features/11153746/The-Connor-Brothers-An-exclusive-interview.html "According to the biographies and press releases made available at their shows and online, the 'twenty-something twin brothers' ...were brought up in California within a secretive and controversial Christian cult ...Far from being escapees from a religious cult living in Brooklyn, the 'brothers', I was told, were two art dealers from London... "
Comment (not a review). Is "authored" the correct word to use for a work that is largely a translation of something authored by someone else? —David Eppstein (talk) 17:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm open to being convinced. But the wp article it links to says it is "an archipelago off the southernmost tip of the South American mainland." I don't see this article or that one stating that it is in fact itself part of South America, rather than off of it. What do you know, not in either article, that makes you pretty sure? 2603:7000:2101:AA00:59D9:28DE:BCC:4796 (talk) 08:11, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
South America does show it on its map and discusses it as part of South America. Contrast with e.g the Galapagos, which are sometimes considered part of Oceania. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If this article were to have a ref that supported that aspect of the hook directly, I would be happy to put a check mark on that requirement.2603:7000:2101:AA00:894B:9C69:E769:856B (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Technically, I also need to provide the QPQ still. Often when I am done writing an article I don't have steam to do the QPQ review. I've put a sentence in, keeping in mind that the pumice has to first get past South America before it can get to TDF. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment only It would be good if you could tidy up the main hook; you are linking to a disambiguation page, and another link is a redirect. Both are not permissible for the main page. Schwede66 23:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reviewing... New enough, long enough, QPQ provided. Will complete soon, though I think a better hook than being inspired by his mother could be made. Whispyhistory (talk) 12:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... Interesting article bio, no copyvio issues, hook is in the article and verified but not as interesting as the work he has done. The lead is short. I have added some text. Thank you for creating this. Suggest work on some of his achievements and an alternative hook may become apparent. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Whispyhistory and Z1720: The nominator hasn't edited since the day of the nomination. Given that Whispyhistory has added to the article, would you be willing to adopt this nomination or suggest new hooks yourself? Or should the nomination be closed as abandoned? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have serious reservations about this article and expressed them on the talkpage. A few tags were added. jps (talk) 15:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment, not a full review: the broad statement Occupying forces intentionally target Palestinian heritage, not supported by any reference and only one example (where the intentional aspect is not clear) is probably not WP:NPOV. --Broc (talk) 14:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ReplyBroc, the phrase is based on this sentence "The Israeli occupation has repeatedly targeted the SHH area causing damage to their heritage, which made the connection between tangible and intangible heritage difficult to document." from the article, Soliman, Mahmoud; Sulin, Laura; Karlıdağ-Dennis, Ecem (2022-01-02). "Building Capabilities of Youth Through Participatory Oral History Project: The South Hebron Hills, a Palestinian Case Study". Journal of Human Development and Capabilities. 23 (1): 116–135. However, you're correct that it should have more than one reference. Lajmmoore (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lajmmoore: I tried to phrase a few statements in a more neutral way, reflecting what the sources you cite report, see my edit here. What I cannot assess is if the sources mentioned are WP:REPUTABLE sources. --Broc (talk) 16:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll review this. QPQ checks out, article length and newness of 5x expansion checks out. I don't see any issues with the article; it's well sourced and generally well put-together. The hook is interesting, but I feel it could be phrased a little more clearly; what about something along the lines of "...British Indian civil servant Winter Renouf advocated for Canadian wheat to be grown in Punjab?" Generalissima (talk) 04:33, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the review. I chose that wording because he was a Briton in India, not a British Indian. As for the remainder of the hook, in all honesty, I prefer the original which was carefully worded in order to avoid ambiguity. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:39, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Be advised that this article existed in article space for a month and a half in 2018. It was then redirected to temporary work for a year and a half and then gig worker for 4 years. I can find no evidence of a WP:AFD, WP:CSD or WP:PROD in this article's history. I think it should have its own article. The current second sentence explains why redirecting it to gig worker is not sufficient ("The gig economy is composed of corporate entities, workers and consumers"). This is a current WP:VA5 nominee.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT3: ... that fashion photographer Andrea Blanchsued artist Jeff Koons for copyright infringement after he reused a photograph she took of a woman's lower legs in one of his paintings without asking her? Source: "He knew that he’d done it, and he didn’t bother to ask permission ... I just know that he appropriated my image, and he should have asked for permission to use it.", same as source for original hook
Comment (not a full review). The article appears to have many unsourced claims, starting with its first body sentence, "Born in Paris to Spanish parents". (There is a footnote later in the same paragraph but it does not source this claim.) —David Eppstein (talk) 17:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@David Eppstein: Thanks for checking! I've verified all of the information now, appears to have largely been an issue with inline citation placement. --Grnrchst (talk) 18:30, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this article is not eligible for DYK. It was neither created nor expanded over five times its previously existing length within five days of nomination. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CurryTime7-24, according to the article's history, it was finally moved to mainspace on December 1, four days prior to nomination. (I wouldn't count the premature move to mainspace and back to draft space in the prior week.) Please redo your review, since the article does appear eligible. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:50, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the first theatrical run of Ion Luca Caragiale's (pictured)A Stormy Night, which features a journalist nearly beaten up by the Civil Guard, saw Caragiale nearly beaten up by the Civil Guard? Source: The stuff about the journalist (Rică Venturiano) is from multiple sources, and is a central element of the play; it is mentioned in the synopsis of the article, but, if need be, can also be picked up from the references used in the section titled "Rică". Multiple sources also on the Caragiale's near-beating, with a condensed one being N. Vătămanu, "45 de ani de la moartea lui I. L. Caragiale. Jupîn Dumitrache", in Gazeta Literară, Vol. IV, Issue 25, June 1957, p. 5: "Caragiale însuşi scria in introducerea la Notiţe critice: 'La a doua reprezentaţie am fost fluierat, huiduit şi ameninţat, de o droaie de patrioţi din garda civică, cu bătaie în piaţa teatrului. Nişte tineri ofiţeri m-au scăpat de furia poporului'. S-ar părea că garda naţională ridiculizată in comedie a reacţionat energic provocind scandalul." ("Caragiale himself wrote in his introduction to Critical Notes: 'On the second staging [of A Stormy Nigh] there was a crowd of patriots from the civic guard, whistling, heckling and threatening me with a beating out in the theater square. Some young officers stepped in to save me from the fury of the people'. It would seem that the national guard, which was strongly ridiculed in that comedy had reacted strongly, provoking a scandal.") Vătămanu goes on to name a few participants in the brouhaha; note that he uses the name "national guard" for what was commonly known as the Civil Guard, or City Guard.
Comment: Special occasion holding request: Would be great if this were featured on January 18 (which was is the 145th anniversary of the premiere, in Old Style), or January 30 (the same in New Style, and also Caragiale's anniversary, in Old Style).
Just a comment, but both requested dates (January 18 and January 30) are beyond the six-week limit for special occasion requests, calculating from the nomination date of December 5. As such, if there is a desire for either date to be used, an IAR exemption request needs to be raised at WT:DYK, otherwise the hook can only run as a regular hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: * I am very welcome to suggestions for a different hook. The facts in summary are: a hotel tried to convince three employees to sign an agreement to work as contractors. This deprived them of their minimum entitlements. This sort of arrangement is called 'sham contracting' in australia. I do not love my hook. Proposed amendments welcome.
ALT1: ... that an Australian High Court case found a hotel chain to have used third-party contractors to avoid paying employees their required benefits? ––– GMH Melbourne (talk) 12:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Richard Twine's 2010 Animals as Biotechnology was "the first book fully dedicated to" the discipline of critical animal studies? Source: "Richard Twine, a highly significant foundational CAS scholar who helped develop ICAS Europe and authored the first book fully dedicated to CAS, Animais as Biotechnology: Ethics, Sustainability and Critical Animal Studies, writes, 'CAS scholars stress ethical veganism and may work with those civil society groups or individuals who campaign against animal exploitation' (p. 8)." On page xxviii of this paper.
ALT1: ...that Animals as Biotechnology, a 2010 monograph by the sociologist Richard Twine, was "the first book fully dedicated to" the discipline of critical animal studies? Source as above.
Not a review, but a comment: the quote in both hooks is so awkward with its ending in a "to" that you may as well drop the quotation marks and make the hooks paraphrases. Dahn (talk) 06:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT2 ... that Richard Twine's 2010 Animals as Biotechnology was the first scholarly book primarily focused on the discipline of critical animal studies? Source as above.
ALT3: ...that Animals as Biotechnology, a 2010 monograph by the sociologist Richard Twine, was the first scholarly book primarily focused on the discipline of critical animal studies? Source as above.
... that Romanian adventure novelist N. D. Popescu-Popnedea(pictured) was mocked by literary peers such as Ion Luca Caragiale, who proposed erecting him a bust "in its natural lard"? Source: Ștefan Cazimir, Caragiale față cu kitschul, p. 101. Bucharest: Cartea Românească, 1988. You can actually check out the original text, in its weird orthography and with the pseudonymous signature "Car." (bottom of page 1).
Not a review but a comment, but I have deep reservations about any of the hooks not just due to possible BLP concerns but also regarding the tone of any of the hooks, especially with the whole conflict going on. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As a song related to a contentious topic, we should of course take care to comply with policies and guidelines. I'm unclear on what the tone and possible BLP concerns are and how they disqualify these hooks (presumably per WP:DYKHOOKBLP). Drill music often glorifies violence and there is no undue focus on negative aspects of the living people mentioned. Any clarification would be appreciated. gobonobo+c 16:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I really don't think that running hooks talking about calling for the death of Muslim artists, in reference to Hanukkah or Israel, while a major conflict that to put it mildly has proven very controversial, is a good idea. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for clarifying. I do see where you're coming from. Some might say it wasn't a good idea to write the song in the first place. But the song was written, it became very popular, reliable sources reported on it, and now we have an article for it. I think the article qualifies for DYK in other respects. As far as I know, we have no rule that says we have to censor hooks when there is a major conflict. gobonobo+c 23:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There isn't a rule against hooks about the Israel-Palestine conflict, but understandably such nominations and hooks get much more scrutiny compared to other nominations. In the past, hooks that were seen to be sensational or gratuitous involving the conflict had been modified or declined. The article itself isn't necessarily disqualified from DYK, but the hooks probably need to be changed. At the very least, if either hook was approved and ran on the Main Page, we would likely be getting complaints either at WP:ERRORS or at WT:DYK, which is something that ideally we'd want to avoid. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No alternative hooks have been proposed. Given the concerns about the above hooks, the nomination is now marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:03, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm confused. The initial comment was prefaced with "not a review but a comment", so I've been waiting for an actual review. I did respond to the concerns about the hooks and asked for clarification as to what policy-based rationale disqualified the hooks. The response was that someone else might hypothetically object to it and we would want to avoid that. I don't see how marking this for closure is warranted. I'd like to request that another editor review this. gobonobo+c 07:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Respectfully requesting a fresh review, acknowledging the above conversation. gobonobo+c 07:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gobonobo: To answer your question above, a full review is not necessary to fail a nomination if there are issues that would prevent it from passing. For example, if an article is ineligible due to not meeting length requirements or time-limits (i.e. within seven days of creation/5x expansion/GA promotion), a marking for closure could be done without the other DYK criteria being checked. As for the hooks themselves, they arguably not only are possibly BLP violations, more relevantly they could fall afoul of WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically: excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks should be rejected. In the past, hooks that were deemed inflammatory to religion were rejected, and there is a reasonable argument that the hooks proposed above are like that to both Jews and Muslims. As such, I would really suggest not going with either hook in this case. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:55, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5 I didn't actually pose a question there. I see that you suggested not going with either hook because in the past other hooks were rejected that dealt with religion and because, as you say, an argument could be made that they possibly might not comply with DYKHOOKSTYLE. I think it is important to recognize that a topic that is sensational/gratuitous is not the same as a neutral description of that same topic. I don't think we should be rejecting hooks based on hypothetical objections or because someone might complain at WP:ERRORS, but per your advice, I'm providing revised ALTs that don't mention religious holidays or countries. As I'm getting the impression that the "suggestion" of using different hooks is anything but, I'm respectfully requesting again that another editor be allowed to weigh in. gobonobo+c 10:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hey @Bremps:, thanks for giving this a look! I think either of those Alt hooks is good, I like the April Fools-style hooks you've gone for - that could be quite fun (and give a bit more attention to everyone's least favourite topic: journalist biographies)! Lemme know if there's anything else to do. Pretzelles (talk) 16:06, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given that the Brisbane Lions may not be that well-known outside of Australia, I've taken the liberty of adding "Brisbane" to the hook. Leaving the review to another reviewer, although I'd like to see more hooks proposed here as well. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Interesting: - The result of the game is not interesting without context. If the Lions were a major underdog or otherwise unexpected, then this should be elaborated. Otherwise, a new hook is needed.
I reject the proposition that our DYK rules (or GA for that matter) demand citations include metadata such as authorship and date (other than access date). New review requested. Hawkeye7(discuss) 00:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regardless of the metadata issues (I do agree that we do not need metadata stuff since they're optional), we still need new hooks here. I've tried thinking up of some myself but so far I've come up empty (I don't think the "first time in Melbourne in several years" angle would be that catchy unless you're a big Aussie rules fan). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 ... that prior to the 2023 AFL Women's Grand Final, the Brisbane Lions(pictured) included a 20-kilometre trail hike carrying 14 metal jerry cans during pre-season training?
Sounds good to me. They carried a jerry can onto the oval at the conclusion of the game. Hawkeye7(discuss) 01:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I got into touch with Sounder over Discord DMs and to cut a long story short he is requesting for another editor to take a look at his. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:23, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Ken Balcomb, an expert orca researcher, could often identify individual animals just by their whale song? Source: “ He rigged his home, on the northwest shore of San Juan Island, with a stereo linked to hydrophones out in the water. When an orca passed, he could often identify its whale song.” NY Times
Comment: This doesn't have to happen, but if we have a long wait for this and it gets closer, March 6 would be a good date to run this as it's the 40th anniversary of the start of the British coal miners' strike that inspired the song (something that will no doubt be the subject of some coverage in the UK media). ALT3 would be good for that; the hook can easily be amended to note the occasion. But, as I said, as much as I love anniversary hooks, I'm not standing on ceremony; in fact the article would hardly be "new" by that point.
Comment: Daniel Case This is not a review, but you're right: as much as your entries look brilliant, promoting this nom so early might prevent us from placing the hook on the date you asked for... There's always the "Special occasion area", though! As a smart alternative option, you could try to improve both the articles about the song and the strike to GA status throughout this month, and then nominate them together for DYK: still, I'd ask @DYK admins: for some advice on whether this would be a good idea or not. Oltrepier (talk) 18:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It wouldn't be the first time, if we went that route ... I wound up doing it with Midnight Sun Mosque when my first DYK nom was held to have been untimely, and that was suggested to me as an alternative route (I wanted it to be my 700th DYK, and ultimately it played out that way). I am not sure about the article on the strike, I certainly couldn't do it alone, but maybe help can be sought at the relevant projects (UK, LABOUR). But we do have just enough of a timeframe.
I, too, would be interested in hearing what other people think. Daniel Case (talk) 18:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nathan121212: It has been two weeks since the nomination and a QPQ has not yet been provided. Please provide a QPQ to prevent the nomination from being closed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:10, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
QPQ was not provided within a week of the nomination, and the nominator is no longer QPQ exempt. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given the unwillingness of Owais to provide a QPQ, I'm overtaking this nomination. I have added a QPQ and look forward to hearing about if anything needs to be fixed in the article. Best regards, ─ The Aafī(talk) 15:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Honestly, I don't think either of these hooks is interesting enough for DYK. (And "space elevator" isn't a mass noun, so would need a leadingi "a".) — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 10:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: The article was increased five-fold more than seven days ago, on November 21 2023. The article was expanded from 125 words to roughly 2300! It's a new, low-traffic article that still deserves consideration.
That's a really impressive expansion! Thanks for your work. Unfortuntately, the expansion needs to happen in the seven days before a DYK nomination. Here, there were over three weeks between expansion and nomination, so it's not eligible. There is another route to a DYK: via a WP:good article nomination (GA). In the seven days after an article is promoted to a good article, you can also nominate it for DYK. The article seems very close to meeting the requirements for a good article, which is impressive for a new user. I've copy-edited the article lightly, and I think you can nominate it as-is. The most likely comment from a GA reviewer will be to make the article a bit easier to understand. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 10:00, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not a review, but considering the publicity he's had since his death, I'm not sure how well this hook works without including the fact that he was killed as a result of actions by the IDF... Frzzltalk;contribs
Comment: Combining several newspaper descriptions of him and his nickname for ALT0 and ALT1. ALT2 is another newspaper quote while ALT3 is the same with his nickname. Each is probably a good quirky hook. Preference for ALT0/ALT1 but ALT2/ALT3 would be okay as well.
Even better, ALT0 could be ALT4 ... that "Cave Man Kenny" was a "fast-charging, hard-hitting" "ubiquitous" "obstreperous iron man" with "dependable shoulders"? / ALT5 ... that Cave Man Kenny was a fast-charging, hard-hitting ubiquitous obstreperous iron man with dependable shoulders? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that parochial altruism, a concept in social psychology and evolutionary biology, explains why people are often altruistic towards their own social group while displaying hostility towards out-groups? Source: Bernhard, Helen; Fischbacher, Urs; Fehr, Ernst (2006-08-24). "Parochial altruism in humans". Nature. 442 (7105): 912–915. doi:10.1038/nature04981. ISSN 1476-4687. PMID 16929297. S2CID 4411945.
Adequate sourcing: - There are a lot of floating, unresolved statements lacking citations that have been tagged, including independent lines, as well as page-top WP:V and WP:OR related banners. This is all from a recent failed GA nom, and the tags have been there for almost two weeks now.
Interesting: - It seems to be a definition for those familiar with relevant concepts, rather than a hook for a general audience. Does not attempt to intrigue the reader with, for example, how the concept explains what it purports to explain.
QPQ: None required.
Overall: While DYK criteria are not GA criteria, the GA review revealed that the article is not presently eligible for a DYK hook. There has not been movement to address these considerable issues—the nominator's last edit was on 10 December, well before the GA review started. Rejecting. Remsense留 01:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT3: ... that the Bartow–Pell Mansion was once called a "challenge to the hard-boiled reputation of the Bronx"? Source: Gale, Amy (September 8, 2004). "Houses bring New York's past to life". The Christian Science Monitor. p. 14.
ALT4: ... that New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion, once a summertime City Hall, became a museum after its operator was restricted from importing and exporting plants? Source: Multiple, see above
ALT2: ... that the name of horror-folk band Harley Poe possibly came from the name of a murdered neighbour of the frontman? Source: iHorror interview with Joseph Whiteford (quote too long to put here, but it's from the first question in the interview)
There are two primary issues with the nomination at the moment. The first is that a QPQ has yet to be provided despite being a week since the nomination. The second is that neither hook seems to be appealing or interesting to broad audiences. I would suggest that more hooks about him be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, I ended up falling sick this past week and am just recovering. I'll get to both tomorrow! Legoktm (talk) 04:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that personality neuroscience studies personality in your brain? Source: DeYoung, Colin G.; Beaty, Roger E.; Genç, Erhan; Latzman, Robert D.; Passamonti, Luca; Servaas, Michelle N.; Shackman, Alexander J.; Smillie, Luke D.; Spreng, R. Nathan; Viding, Essi; Wacker, Jan (2022-10-12). "Personality neuroscience: An emerging field with bright prospects". Personality Science. 3. doi:10.5964/ps.7269. ISSN 2700-0710. PMC 9561792. PMID 36250039.
Comment (not reviewing): A DYK hook has to be more than just a definition of the term. It should be something that the reader would find somewhat surprising. We also have to avoid second-person language ("you"). MartinPoulter (talk) 12:39, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like it, but that fact alone wasn't directly supported by the article (it just states that the series is called "Hydraulic Press Girl"). The hook I suggested focuses on her acting in commercials, which is mentioned. I've now added that fact to the article and support the alt hook. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 16:15, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT3: ... that gaming website Video Games Chronicle was established in 2019 to blend industry publications and mainstream sites? Source: GamesIndustry.biz
Not a review: "was estimated to... represent 0.4% of global electricity consumption (!)" That's way more than I expected. I think the article is ripe for a lot of punchy hooks. Bremps... 01:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: Thank you for this nomination! The article was surely very interesting and so is the hook. I've found no issues. This is my first time reviewing DYK, so I've marked this for a second look just to be sure. Regards, NotAGenious (talk) 13:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
NotAGenious, thanks for taking the time to review this nomination! I'm available should you or the second reviewer have any question :) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 19:29, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is not a review, just a comment, but as is the special occasion request might not be granted right now as the nomination was started on December 12. February 14, 2024 is beyond the normal six-week limitation for special occasion requests. If there is still a desire to have this hook run on Valentine's Day, an IAR exemption could be requested at WT:DYK, but there is no guarantee that such a request would be granted (though from experience, WT:DYK tends to be somewhat liberal with regards to IAR exemptions as long as there's a good reason). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The target article (Impact of Yuna Kim) is not linked in either of the hooks. If this is a hook about that article, it should be linked and bolded in the proposed hook(s). Aoba47 (talk) 00:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the response, and it happens to the best of us. Aoba47 (talk) 16:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Passerby comment: the hook article still isn't bolded in the above two hooks, but more generally, I would suggest that those extra wikilinks are distracting from the DYK'd article even if it was bolded. Maybe it's better to just remove the other wikilinks? I would definitely assume many casual readers would click on "Yuna Kim" instead expecting that to be the DYK article. Suggested:
I've also shortened these somewhat - I'm of the "short and punchy" school of thought, especially since casual readers may not know what "elements" mean in a figure skating context. SnowFire (talk) 21:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, if we're being pedantic, I'm not a huge fan of ALT1 / ALT1b - I presume she did have rivals in the sense that she wasn't just skating alone, but rather in competitions. And her competition probably disagrees! If kept, it'd probably be best as an attributed opinion, like "one journalist wrote that her artistry had no rival." But of course, phrasing it like that shows that this claim isn't really THAT impressive. SnowFire (talk) 21:08, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the assistance with the bolding, too. I like the first hook, but with this feedback, I'd like to withdraw ALT1b and replace it with this:
Because then it'd make her impact unique to this sport (as opposed to all the other skaters who have had major impact on figure skating - Korean figure skating is as big as it is now BECAUSE of Yuna, as has been mentioned in this article repeatedly). Editor120918756 (talk) 07:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Editor120918756:, I disagree with your change to ALT2 because as you well know, Kim's influence went far beyond figure skating in Korea. We could say "...a major impact on the sport of figure skating", but that might be too long and redundant. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:17, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I prefer ALT2 without that modification, Yuna Kim was significantly influential in more than just Korea. toobigtokale (talk) 14:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the Alex quartet was partly inspired by author Tessa Duder's own championship swimming career, but she says it is not semi-autobiographical? Source: "Which small vignette (pretty much true) brings me to reviewers who blithely assume that Alex is semi-autobiographical. ... authenticity doesn’t mean “semi-autobiographical”. ... I too was a schoolgirl “overachiever” and was – am still – famously opinionated, but the similarities are superficial. Only I know what is based on memories, what is researched, what has been playfully expanded from facts or what – the largest category – is actually pure invention." [11]
First, the good: this nom does not require a QPQ (W9793, this will be your fifth if approved, so further noms will require QPQs). The article is long enough, new enough, and referenced. The hooks are interesting enough and referenced. However, Earwig returned an incredibly high match rate of 56.6%. Part of this is because of the numerous unavoidable titles she has held, so we can ignore that. However, much of this because of extensive quotes by her as well as some lifted text that must be fixed. While the quotes are generally in the public domain, on the role of information and technology in international affairs appears to lift from this. While this can be resolved using paraphrasing, I think it speaks to a neutrality issue in this article. I can find no reliable sources that outright criticize her, but it should be reliable sources adding commentary on her and her comments rather than extended quotations. Plenty of reliable sources exist on her, so I expect that the necessary changes can be made without the size of the article taking a hit. I'd ask that these fixes be done within a week, with a ping to notify me when they're done. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:58, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: Realized I'm a bit late (two days); requesting an extension per Wikipedia:Did you know/Guidelines (would've nominated immediately after expansion but it was still at AFD then, and then I forgot to nominate it right after the AFD closed on Dec. 18).
current cleanup banner in the article will need to be fixed before this article can be promoted at DYK. Additionally, I'm not sure the second hook is good. Women with uncomplicated pregnancy may not face any dangers due to lack of medical care. The source would need to meet WP:MEDRS. (t · c) buidhe 08:17, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT0 might be too short, I'd suggest something like "classified as MCDs" rather than "are MCDs" Orchastrattor (talk) 04:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
First let me say that this is a really important article, and I thank you for adding it to Wikipedia. I've done some additional cleanup on the grammar. Regarding the alts, I've struck the originals re: the comments above and am suggesting slight modifications below.
I'll review this. The article fits age and length requirements. It does not appear to have any copyvio or sourcing issues. I don't have access to Dudbridge's text, but accepting on good faith; Hook is interesting enough, and is cited in-article. QPQ checks out. My only concern is that there is quite a bit of over-citing in the penultimate paragraph; since the cites all seem to return to Dudbridge 1995, couldn't the whole paragraph just be cited as "Dudbridge 1995, pp 177-236"? A wide spread, but certainly easier to parse than over a dozen citations to the same section of the same book all right in a row. Generalissima (talk) 04:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hey there, thanks for the review but I respectfully don't think it's a case of overciting and would prefer to leave the cites as they are. It might be more aesthetically pleasing (if that's what you mean by "parse") but it would render the citation kind of pointless and also somewhat compromise the text-source integrity. For whichever specific story the reader might possibly be interested in (but whose details unfortunately have to be omitted here for reasons of space) the current citations help to directly lead the reader to the relevant part of Dudbridge's book (and there's quite a lot of detail for each story), rather than have them sift thru a spread of 60-odd pages. Put it another way, the citations would be the same as now if the stories were presented in a table instead. I would generally be very cautious about citing such a wide spread; 2 or 3 pages is of course tolerable but anything more is simply unhelpful to the reader IMO. KINGofLETTUCE 👑🥬 17:31, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm going to ask for assistance from someone with the technical know-how, perhaps either Theleekycauldron or Vaticidalprophet, because this page should not have been a copypaste of the original nomination but should have been a clean, new nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Narutolovehinata5, Toadboy123, as this is supposed to be a totally new nomination, I have deleted everything from the prior review (except maybe the hook). This includes the QPQ, which was supplied by Onegreatjoke for that particular nomination and was used for it even though it didn't ultimately pass; Toadboy123 will need to supply their own QPQ for this new nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: It would be great if this could run on 6 March, her 30th birthday. If either ALT1 or ALT2 run, I could probably throw together an article on either Hey Tracey or the Cock Destroyers and run this as a double nom.
ALT1: ... that locals responding to the 1882 Spuyten Duyvil train wreck used snowballs to extinguish the fires in the wrecked cars (illustration, pictured)? Source: "And, although badly burned about the face and hands, Hanford started to roll a snowball toward the terrible mass of burning timbers and hissing metal. Soon hundreds of willing hands were pushing great mounds of snow toward the danger spot ... Tons of snow were thrown upon the two cars, and in a short time the volunteer workers had the hills and roadway scraped almost entirely clear of snow. " Railroad Stories.
ALT2: ... that the brakeman prosecuted for his negligence in the 1882 Spuyten Duyvil train wreck testified that he had never read the rulebook because he was illiterate? Source: "Although George Melius had been employed in train service on the New York Central & Hudson River Railroad for more than twenty years, he could neither read nor write!" Railroad Stories
Comment: The 142nd anniversary of this is coming up on January 13. I can easily reword if we want to run one of these on that date. (I am also not totally done with this article; just nominating it now because Christmas. I may also have another picture to go with one of the hooks. Uploaded it; it's the Thomas Nast cartoon above.
@Lullabying: This isn't turning up as a 5x expansion (1101 → 3471 characters). It'd need to be 5505 characters to qualify. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for letting me know. I'll add more info as I go. lullabying (talk) 21:31, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seems to be ready for a full review (DYKcheck is giving a prose size of 6,820 characters; XTools says 6,821 characters). Epicgenius (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that as part of the Hardpointmissile defense system, ARPA developed missiles able to hit 400 g of acceleration and reaction times in milliseconds? Source: Reed
@Maury Markowitz: I'm really struggling with this DYK. There seems to be a huge amount of cross over with the subject discussed at Sprint_(missile) to the point where I'm wondering if this article is superfluous? and other than HAPDAR I'm struggling to confirm in any of the sources provided that confirms the name of the system as Hardpoint. Wondering if you might be able to provide any guidance? Seddontalk 03:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Seddon: I can't speak to the Sprint article, I'm not a primary author there. Given this was a completely different project, run by a different organization, built by different companies, with NOTE easily met, I'm not sure there's an issue to correct in this article. The Sprint article also talks about Thunderbird for some reason... the issue would appear to be on that side.
About the second part. If you mean "does the H in HAPDAR mean Hardpoint", then I would point to the IEEE article whose title is "Hardpoint Demonstration Array Radar" and there's any number of independent verifications like this one at MIT. But you mean "I can't verify this thing is called Hardpoint, I only see that in the title of the radar", then there are any number of independent works that verify it to one degree or another, including this one in Daedalus or this mention in the DOD annual report index. It is worth noting that ARPA referred to it both as "hard point" and "hardpoint" in the documents I've found (all linked within), both as the development effort and the overall concept, so it can be very confusing. It's a bit of the "Kleenex" problem.
@Maury Markowitz: hugely appreciate your response. Good enough for me. Will review later today. Seddontalk 15:59, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Other problems: - If we want an image associated then possibly update the hook to "developed missiles (pictured) able to hit 400 g of acceleration and reaction times in milliseconds?
Clear at 100px: - I'm wondering if File:Hibex.jpg might be a better image? The in-flight one isn't of particularly great quality.
QPQ: - Not done Overall: mostly just some comments about the image but we could skip on the image and needs a QPQ. Article could do with a quick copy edit. This was a reasonable number and dependaent are examples I found. Seddontalk 19:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for my tardy reply @Seddon:, xmas time is busy! Excellent review. As to the image, my only concern with the one you suggest is that it is "busy", it's in the foreground but there's so much else going on. I think the solution might be to have someone "grey out" (or "white out" is more accurate) the rest of the image so that the missile stands out more. Let me ask over on the commons. Maury Markowitz (talk) 16:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: thank you! the article looks all good to me and the hook is certainly interesting. I'm doubtful about the image as to whether it brings much value to show one with a completely different species, though similar. I searched for images of witticki but couldn't find any. This hook might also need rewording to make it shorter and clearer, as the article isn't about the single species but rather the parent subfamily, I don't have any other suggestions though, but will leave the nomination open for future comments. the article is great, though! NotAGenious (talk) 18:13, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1: ... that although Bono's band U2 made only No. 52 on the UK Albums Chart with his debut album, his son's band Inhaler topped the chart with his? Source: multiple
The article has some text taken straight from this source without acknowledging this (and some of it is mangled in an attempt to avoid the copying, resulting in sentence fragments like " and would have . ". The source is presumably not copyrighted (US government?) but plagiarism needs acknowledgmente/attribution anyway. Fram (talk) 08:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah good catch! I also saw you caught my accidental drafting in the mainspace so thank you catching that as well! I should probably wait till the next day before publishing in the future. Regarding the copyright, my working assumption is that its not PD and so I was taking care to rewrite everything, though not enough and I should have been more careful about copying snippets whilst writing in that process. The author was NASA's Principal Investigator for the experiment but those are roles rather than posts. Whilst its a post that is in some way remunerated by NASA, I think the relationship is more like that of a contractor rather than an employee and so I don't think PD-GOV applies. I've rewritten and added a source. Seddontalk 12:09, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've done a quick copyedit as well. Seddontalk 18:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the grandson of abolitionist James Townsend was the first United States man to complete teacher training under the tutelage of Maria Montessori? Source: McGroarty, John Steven (1921). Los Angeles from the Mountains to the Sea. American Historical Society. p. 503.
ALT-1 (added Jan. 6) ... that, after becoming "convinced of the evils of slavery", James Townsend left Kentucky for Indiana?
This is only a comment rather than a review, but I would suggest proposing a hook about Townsend himself as the current hook is more about his grandson than himself. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:16, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given that no one else has reviewed this, I am taking the initiative to review this. The article is new enough and the nomination was done on the day the article was created. A QPQ has been found and no close paraphrasing was found.
However, I am not happy with the state of the article. It is very incomplete regarding Townsend's life. For one thing, no reference or context is given for his year of birth as well as his date of death. The date of death is only mentioned in the lead but it is not elaborated on in the article. Indeed, nothing about his life between the Panic of 1837 and his death is explained at all in the article. In addition, about half of the article if not over half of it is actually about his family and descendants, rather than about Townsend himself. Considering that the article is supposed to be about Townsend and much of the article is not about him, I do not think the article as it stands passes WP:DYKCOMPLETE.
Finally, as mentioned above, the hook above is not about Townsend himself but one of his descendants. A hook that is only indirectly about the subject is not ideal. The way I see it, I can see two potential paths forward for this nomination to pass: either the article is expanded with more information about Townsend, perhaps also including information that could be used as a hook, or the article could be renamed and its focus be changed to be more about the Townsend family rather than James Townsend himself. If these issues are not addressed then unfortunately the nomination may have to be failed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you, but the article is still missing a lot about his later life including information about his death. The sourcing issue for the dates of birth and death also remain unaddressed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry! I thought I'd added the DOB and DOD refs but it looks like they were caught in draft state. They're now added to the infobox. What information would you like me to add about his later life and death? Chetsford (talk) 04:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I solemnly avow that everything discoverable in RS is included in the article, to the best of my ability. Chetsford (talk) 04:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If that's the case, then perhaps just include his death in the prose, with a reference. Still, I'm really not sure if it's a good idea that about half of the article is about his descendants rather than him himself. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, that's done. I mean I guess I could delete the section about his descendants and the article would still be over the requisite character count. Chetsford (talk) 04:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That wouldn't be necessary, the important think is that the part about his descendants shouldn't be half or over half the length of the article. This can be solved by beefing up the part about James. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, that would definitely be great. Chetsford (talk) 07:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that opposition to the Leonia Alternative High School from the local teachers union gave rise to a lengthy legal battle? Source: see footnote 3 in article among others
ALT1: ... that the Leonia Alternative High School of the 1970s emphasized use of volunteer community resource people as instructors, which led to opposition from the local teachers union? Source: see footnote 6 in article among others
ALT1: ... that Sofiya Vakman relinquished a career as a concert pianist because a skin disorder she contracted after swimming made it painful for her to play? Source: Ibid.
New enough: - Article was first created on 7 December, as it was nominated on 23 December, it needs to be evaluated against the 14 December version, which had 933 characters. The current article has 2612 characters, and therefore does not meet 5X expansion.
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting:
QPQ: None required.
Overall: Unfortunately, as this fails newness, as interesting as the subject of this article might be, it cannot be considered for DYK at this time. RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 18:01, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RightCowLeftCoast: As of nomination the article was freshly published, but at this point it's really stale. Also, "heroic virtues" is an official church term. I was debating about whether to add it, but other articles and the list of child saints used "heroic virtues" as a reason for beatification. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
May I suggest commenting within the the template? This way if others believe that it still meets the newness criteria, they can voice their support (or opposition). That said if Heroic virtues is a term used for determining sainthood, perhaps placing it in quotes, and citing it, as well as linking it (if it has its own article). WP:PEACOCK is more of a MOS thing of WP:GAN, but still it is an applicable critique.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 4:19 pm, Today (UTC−8)
... that a 16-year-old high school student reverse-engineerediMessage to let Android users text iPhone users with blue chat bubbles from the Beeper Mini app? Source: The Verge ("he had reverse engineered Apple’s iMessage, allowing any device — Android, Windows, whatever — to send messages as a blue bubble", "a 16-year-old high school student", "That prototype became the basis for a new Android app, called Beeper Mini")
... that producers of Hollyoaks worked with the charity "Little People UK" in order to make sure that Lacey Lloyd, who has dwarfism, was portrayed authentically? Source: [1]
ALT3: ... that Lacey Lloyd was introduced to Hollyoaks as the producers wanted to throwback to the earlier days of the show, where students would live together under the same roof? Source: [4]
ALT12: ... that Annabelle Davis spent time learning legal terminology in order to help her portray the role of paralegal Lacey Lloyd? Source: [13]
Reviewed:
Comment: I have some other hook ideas but I did not want to overwhelm with too many. I hope these are okay for now. Please let me know if there any questions of course!
Not a review (and I review oldest first so I probably wouldn't touch this any earlier than about late February), but the Metro is listed at WP:RSP as being generally unreliable, and I wouldn't use the Mirror, the Sunday People or the Evening Standard on similar grounds.--Launchballer 01:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Aside from the fact that I can still see the Sunday People on this page, they're still in the article.--Launchballer 10:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am trying to find an alternative source for the Sunday People but I have found an alternate source for the others in the meantime. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 11:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
DaniloDaysOfOurLives: I still see several instances of the Metro and the Mirror in the article. Can these be replaced or cut please?--Launchballer 15:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I thought long and hard about it but I have to keep them in the article. This is because they add to it. The article still passes GNG without them, but the Mirror has a great interview from the actress which is great for the development, and as the Mirror is not deprecated (or considered unreliable in the sources table), I still used it. Regarding Metro, the soaps departments of Metro is separate from the main tabloid site (they even do a weekly Metro Soaps newsletter) and they get their information (e.g. spoilers and interviews) directly from the soaps publicity departments. Some of the information is repeated in Digital Spy and other more reliable sources, but I did not remove all of them from the article as then it would reduce a lot of the information which aids readers and would reduce the reception. There have been other fictional characters articles in recent years that have gotten GA status and DYK despite including Metro sources (including one of mine just a month ago). However, none of the current hooks rely on any Metro or Mirror sources at the moment. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 00:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the 400th episode of Neighbours features the serial's first Christmas story? Source: "The great Santa shake-up!", Cook, Stephen, 29 November 1986, TV Week, page 33, "the network decided to keep it on air as long as possible so we were able to do a Christmas story."
ALT2: ... that the Neighbours cast entered "a Christmas fairyland" in the 1986 season finale? Source: "The great Santa shake-up!", Cook, Stephen, 29 November 1986, TV Week, page 33, "That "little dream" sees the whole of the Neighbours cast in a very different neighborhood - a Christmas fairyland in which they all play colorful characters."
@Moscow Connection: Reping due to a typo. With that said, how do the following hooks sound?
ALT1 ... that 2022 Junior Eurovision winner Lissandro earned the nickname "Elvissandro" due to his love of Elvis Presley?
ALT2 ... that 2022 Junior Eurovision winner Lissandro has done voice-overs for several television series and animation films?
The article is also a bit on the shorter side so if possible I'd like to see it beefed up more. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If there's a desire to keep some level of mystery and encourage clicks, we could also have ALT1a ... that 2022 Junior Eurovision winner Lissandro has the nickname "Elvissandro"?, but I'd leave it to the reviewer to decide. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:49, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Whitley Furniture Galleries would increase the population of Zebulon up to fifteen fold when hosting an automobile giveaway in 1936? Source: Source
ALT1: ... that Whitley Furniture Galleries would close after 113 years of business only because of a lack of a fifth generation to run it? Source: Source
Comment: If the hooks are not exciting enough, there are lots of newspaper reports of the somewhat revolting cases that Duthie had to oversee when he was Sheriff - if necessary I can add one or more of those into the article and use one as a hook - for example he is said to have "blasted" one young man for attempting to incite a suicide, etc., etc.
Pending: No source for the hook fact given in nomination (however article references do support that fact). I further note reference [1] is behind a paywall - is there an archive version available that can be linked?
Pending: awaiting QPQ. ResonantDistortion 17:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that in December 2022, Panos Katseris scored his first goal for Italian club Catanzaro at less than one minute since the kick-off of the game? Source: Translated and re-adapted from La Gazzetta dello Sport: "The score [was] opened after less than a minute by [Panos] Katseris (the sixteenth member of the [Catanzaro] squad to find the net) [...]"
Comment: I've given RoboCric co-credits as a way to thank him for accepting my draft; on a side note, I'm hoping to get my own QPQ review over the line as soon as possible!
... that the opening date of Line 19 of the Wuhan Metro was announced on the day before? Source: https://news.cjn.cn/whpd/yw_19947/202312/t4784783.htm (武汉轨道交通19号线和5号线二期将于2023年12月30日开通初期运营。19号线开通时间为上午10时28... Translation: Wuhan Metro Line 19 and Line 5 second phase will be put into initial operations on December 30, 2023. Line 19 opens at 10:28 a.m. ...)
ALT1: ... that Line 19 of the Wuhan Metro will become the "fastest" line within the network? Source: http://news.cnhubei.com/content/2022-12/15/content_15319120.html (设计最高运行速度初期为120公里/小时，预留提升至140公里/小时的条件，是武汉市“跑得最快”的地铁。 Translation: The designed maximum operating speed is initially 120 km/h, with conditions reserved for raising it to 140 km/h. It is the "fastest" subway [line] in Wuhan.)
The Pregão, one of the 8 festivities of the Nicolinas
... that the Nicolinas, a traditional set of festivities from the Portuguese city of Guimarães, are celebrated in honor of Saint Nicholas? Source: [15]
Please note that you are not QPQ-exempt (18 previous credits) and you need to provide one within a week of being prompted (well, really within a week of nomination). Schwede66 22:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Schwede66, hi yes sorry I am well aware of that. When nominating I was unaware that I would unexpectedly have to be AFK until the 6th; is it ok if I delay this nom a few more days and complete the QPQ this weekend? Thanks —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝)
Comment: The link between the six musicians in ALT0 is that they are all in Loud LDN, although I would not be able to include that fact on the front page as I am relying on Loud LDN's website for Ella and Grae being in there. Additionally, there is a Creative Commons image of Nieve Ella's hair salon at Geograph.org.uk that could be used for ALT2.
The combination of hook and date does not sound quite neutral to me. I would prefer it to be promoted to a random date, as any DYK, and save the strike for a "In the news" nomination. Cambalachero (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't feel strongly about the date, but FWIW I don’t see anything in WP:DYKSO that proscribes this request. I mulled over an ITN nom, but concluded that it would be rejected for being too local. Cheers, Mach61 (talk) 05:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't remember if it's been explicitly mentioned in the rules, but there's somewhat of a consensus that hooks that "unduly promote a release" or something like that, especially if it's a special occasion date request, should be declined or revised. My hunch is that the special occasion is probably still possible, but not with the current hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:20, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, I relinquish the date request. Mach61 (talk) 01:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 ... that New York store Yun Hai launched a Kickstarter campaign to help counteract the 2021 Chinese ban on Taiwanese pineapples and raised more than 8 times the expected proceeds? Source: [17]Butterdiplomat (talk) 13:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article was new enough, long enough, no copyvio, no significant style issues, sourcing is good, seems to be first nomination so no QPQ needed. Only one thing—I like ALT1 better, it seems more interesting. I think it can be made more concise and punchier however, how about this instead: "that New York store Yun Hai raised eight times their fundraising target for a Kickstarter campaign to counteract the 2021 Chinese ban on Taiwanese pineapples?" Let me know your thoughts. toobigtokale (talk) 01:05, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that is good but suggest further adjusting to say "... that New York store Yun Hai raised eight times its fundraising target for a Kickstarter campaign to support farmers in Taiwan amid the 2021 Chinese ban on Taiwanese pineapples?" Think this wording is more accurate. Butterdiplomat (talk) 03:21, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah ok that clears up a bit of confusion for me. However it is pretty long. "... that New York store Yun Hai raised eight times its fundraising target to support Taiwanese farmers after China banned the import of Taiwanese pineapples?" How about this? toobigtokale (talk) 06:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that a college designed for and led by Native Americans was active in Chicago from 1974 to 2005? Source: "NAES College designed its curriculum to fulfill a critical gap in higher education . . . through community self-determination." --John J. Laukaitis, "Community Self-Determination: American Indian Education in Chicago 1952-2006" SUNY Press 2015
The Pregão, one of the 8 festivities of the Nicolinas
... that the Nicolinas, a traditional set of festivities from the Portuguese city of Guimarães, are celebrated in honor of Saint Nicholas? Source: [18]
... that lobster-eye optics, that mimic the structure of lobsters' eyes (pictured), will be used in several planned X-ray space telescopes? Source: multiple, see article
... that Australian water polo player Madeleine Steere was selected in the "2018 All-American team" in her second college year? Source: "In 2017 Steere joined the University of Michigan and in her two seasons with the side has gained recognition of her skills through selection in the 2018 All-American team." [19]
... that McKinney Roughs Nature Park houses an archaeological site dating back to the Archaic Period, approximately 2,100 years ago? Source: "McKinney Roughs is a remarkably well-preserved site that was frequented by prehistoric campers in the final stages of the Archaic period. On at least three occasions from about 2100 to 850 years ago, prehistoric peoples camped on the knoll for brief periods of time while hunting and gathering mussels from the river, deer from the forest edge, and a variety of wild plants." (Texas Beyond History)
ALT2 ... that McKinney Roughs Nature Park has an unusual convergence of four distinct ecosystems? Source: "McKinney Roughs, an 1,100-acre nature park sitting on the Lower Colorado River, is home to four distinct ecosystems and hundreds of diverse plant and animal species." ... "Characteristics of four Texas regions -- Post Oak Savannah, Blackland Prairie, East Texas Piney Woods, and Central Texas Plateau -- converge to create an unusual blend of natural resources at McKinney Roughs Nature Park." (Statesman) (LCRA)
ALT3 ... that McKinney Roughs Nature Park and the broader Lost Pines forest provide habitat for over 250 bird species? "Birding enthusiasts are invited to join the fourth annual Lost Pines Christmas Bird Count at McKinney Roughs Nature Park and have the chance to spot dozens of species of birds ranging from the green kingfisher to the American bald eagle ... The Lost Pines area is prime bird habitat, with about 250 of the more than 630 species of birds seen across Texas making their homes in the Lost Pines region. (Statesman)
ALT4 ... that pre-historic artifacts found at McKinney Roughs Nature Park were uniquely preserved due to flood sediments? Source: "The archeological site developed under relatively rare circumstances: materials left behind by these small prehistoric groups were quickly covered by fine flood sediments that sealed and preserved the site much as it was when the occupants walked away for the last time." (Texas Beyond History)
Comment: The image is cropped - I am not sure if we need to call that out in the caption.
Since the subject is the prize-winning photograph, I would strongly recommend using the full photo. If the cropped version is used, it should definitely be mentioned in the (pictured) and/or the caption. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:06, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mandarax: Thank you for the comment. I have put the original photo in the article nomination in place of the cropped. Bruxton (talk) 15:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not a review, and I review oldest first so I probably wouldn't touch this for at least another month and a half (but would not object to any other editor doing so in the interim): The Times of India is not a reliable source.--Launchballer 14:44, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Launchballer Thanks for the note. Times of India is not the only source to support the fact. I have changed it on this nomination to The Indian Express, which is considered reliable. I will rework on the article and try removing TOI resources although the two sources are unlikely to fall under what is considered "unreliable/biased" on this publication, but I take your note. ─ The Aafī(talk) 14:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In my opinion, WP:CONTEXTMATTERS should apply with regards to the reliability of TOI for the part of content sourced from there. ─ The Aafī(talk) 15:01, 31 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1: ... that that Patrick O'Connell made his NFL debut on his birthday, which was the only game he played that year? Source: Inter Lake ref plus PFR, which says he only played one game - the Seahawks are now done for the season as they missed the playoffs and thus he cannot play anymore games
... that Nick Whiteside overcame a torn Achilles tendon in 2021, a broken foot in 2022, and playing for a NCAA Division II college football team to make the National Football League in 2023? Source: MLive
... that Sunday lunch with Robert Alexander Neil was called "the best intellectual thing in Cambridge"? Source: Robinson, Annabel (2002). The Life and Work of Jane Ellen Harrison. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780199242337, p. 127
ALT1: ... that the classicist Robert Alexander Neil edited texts from ancient India as well as from ancient Greece? Source: Giles, Peter (1912b). "Neil, Robert Alexander" . In Lee, Sidney (ed.). Dictionary of National Biography, 1912 Supplement . Vol. 3. pp. 1–2; Zacher, Konrad (20 June 1903). "The Knights of Aristophanes Edited by Robert Alexander Neil". Berliner Philologische Wochenschrift [Berlin Philological Weekly] (in German). 23 (25). column 769.
ALT2: ... that despite placing top in his university class in Ancient Greek, the classicist Robert Alexander Neil initially decided to study medicine? Source: Giles, Peter (1912b). "Neil, Robert Alexander" . In Lee, Sidney (ed.). Dictionary of National Biography, 1912 Supplement . Vol. 3. p. 1.
ALT1: ... that the 6-ton (6.1-tonne) Pilgrims' Cross(pictured), high on Holcombe Moor, England, was dragged up there with difficulty by 14 horses? Source: As ALT0
... that a street in Bucharest was once named after the outlaw Ioniță Tunsu, because he used to visit his girlfriend there? Source: Simona Vasilache, "Vintage. D-ale orașului", in România Literară, Issue 33/2015, p. 17: Actuala stradă Ecaterina Teodoroiu se numea, pe la 1850, strada Tunsului, fiindcă iubita celebrului haiduc locuia chiar în casa care înfunda ulicioara. Ioniţă o vizita seară de seară, cu complicitatea discretă a vecinilor, până când un glonte l-a împiedicat să mai vină. ("Around 1850, the present-day Ecaterina Teodoroiu Street was known as Tunsului Street, because that famous hajduk's lover [also readable as 'girlfriend'] lived right in the house at the very end of that narrow alley. Ioniță would visit her evening upon evening [note: this part is incidentally slightly inaccurate, he only showed up in town once per week], with all neighbors acting as his discreet accomplices, until a bullet ended his run.")
ALT1: ... that outlaw Ioniță Tunsu once stalked Wallachia's Russian governor, writing him that: "Your Excellency's head was today in my rifle's sight [but] I never thought of killing you"? Source: Potra, p. 74 (with quote also found in Papazoglu): Pe la jumătatea drumului dintre București și Tîrgoviște, unde știa că generalul va face un popas, s-a ascuns în în niște tufe așteptînd să sosească ca să-l poată vedea cît mai aproape. [...] După plecarea generalului, Tunsu alcătui o scrisoare cu următorul cuprins: "Înaltă excelență, om împărătesc ce ești, ai fost adus de Dumnezeu în țara mea ca să faci numai bunătăți. Capul excelenței tale a fost azi în gura puștei mele. N-am voit să te omor, căci omoram pe un părinte iubit de țară. ("About halfway between Bucharest and Târgoviște, at a place he knew would be used as a resting stop by the general [Kiselyov], [Tunsu] his in the bushes, waiting for him to arrive so that he could get as close a sight of him as possible. [...] Once the general left, Tunsu wrote him a letter with the following words: 'Your Most High Excellency, you imperial man you, you were brought into my country by God, and you can only better this land. Your Excellency's head was today in my rifle's sight. I never thought of killing you, for doing so would have meant killing off a father whom the country adores"). (The quote from the letter continues, and more of it is in the article, but this portion already verifies the hook.)
ALT2: ... that according to local tradition, a church bell in brigand Ioniță Tunsu's native area kept ringing out Tunsu's name, until it was stolen by the Wehrmacht? Source: "Parizienii din Optași, mândri de cătunul lor", in Gazeta de Sud, 28 April 2009, p. 4: În interiorul bisericii din Paris, construită la sfârșitul secolului XVIII, se află un mormânt unde sătenii cred că este înhumat tipul haiducului Ioniță Tunsu. [...] „Se povestește că, demult, când se trăgea clopotul la biserica din Paris, se auzea numele haiducului Tunsu, dar în al doilea război mondial nemții au furat clopotul și cel nou nu îl mai «strigă» pe haiducul ce a trăit aici, în deal, în Vâlceaua Stânii“, își amintește nea Ghită. ("Inside the church of Paris hamlet, which was built toward the end of the 18th century, there exists a grave which the villagers assume to be housing the remains of hajduk Ioniță Tunsu. [...] 'The story goes that once upon a time, when the Paris church bell would be rung, it would call out hajduk Tunsu's name, but during the second world war the Germans stole that bell, and the new one no longer 'cries out' for this hajduk, for this man who once lived uphill from here, in Vâlceaua Stânii', Mister Ghiță recalls.)
... that Robbery Bob, Angry Birds, and Cut the Rope were published by the same company? Source: [20]: "Ever since striking gold with games like Angry Birds and Cut The Rope, Chillingo has been rapidly firing out cutesy physics-based iOS puzzlers in hopes of once again finding App Store glory."
Reviewed:
Comment: This is my third DYK nomination. This one is for the 2024 WikiCup.
... that American political scientist Scott Kennedy was the first western scholar to visit China for in-person exchanges with PRC officials and business executives since the COVID-19 lockdowns? Source: https://archive.is/QRDlAhttps://archive.is/Tm8ik
... that the Avengers franchise is the sixth highest-grossing film franchise of all-time at the worldwide box office, grossing over US$7.7 billion with just four films? Source: CBR
ALT1: ... that after the successful formation of the Avengers in 2012, other film studios announced plans to create their own superhero shared universes including one for the Justice League? Source: LA Times and /Film
Comment: I intend this as a little homage to an important athlete who passed away this morning. I should note that I'm still working extensively on the article to tweak it and expand it with more notable information, as I've also nominated it for ITN:RD. For once, I actually managed to complete my review before submitting a nom: yay!
Overall: Just about everything looks good; however, I notice there's one {citation needed} tag in the article. Could you fix that? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@BeanieFan11: Hello, thank you for reviewing my entry! In the end, I've decided to delete that passage completely: the URL I tried to retrieve from the specific article was apparently dead, and perhaps those bits of information weren't so significant, anyway... Anything else I should work on? Oltrepier (talk) 10:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Catodontherium had a prior genus name that was mistakenly thought to have been used before and therefore was replaced? Source: Classification of Mammals: Above the Species Level, pg. 406 ("'Proposed on the grounds that Catodus is preoccupied by Catodon Linnaeus, 1761. This is not preoccupation, but Catodus was a numen nudum in its earlier publication (1905) so that Catodontherium may be retained' (Simpson, 1945:147)"
ALT2: ... that Sun Haiyan was the shortest serving Chinese ambassador to Singapore, with a tenure of 14 months? Source: Source: "Singapore’s Chinese-language newspaper Lianhe Zaobao earlier this week reported that Sun, 51, had been recalled to Beijing after just 14 months, following a promotion to become a deputy minister in the Communist Party’s International Liaison Department.""China's outgoing envoy hails Singapore's 'unwavering commitment' to Beijing ties". South China Morning Post. July 28, 2023. Retrieved January 4, 2024.
ALT3: ... that Sun Haiyan is the first female deputy minister of the International Liaison Department of the Chinese Communist Party? Source: Source: "Singapore’s Chinese-language newspaper Lianhe Zaobao earlier this week reported that Sun, 51, had been recalled to Beijing after just 14 months, following a promotion to become a deputy minister in the Communist Party’s International Liaison Department.The newspaper reported that Sun would become the first deputy minister in the mainland’s central foreign affairs system born after 1970, and the department’s first female deputy minister.""China's outgoing envoy hails Singapore's 'unwavering commitment' to Beijing ties". South China Morning Post. July 28, 2023. Retrieved January 4, 2024.
Article looks good, I made several minor changes, and will finish review later today or tomorrow. You probably want to link it to Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package (and link it there too); there is also this publication Lunar Surface Gravimeter as a lunar seismometer that you can use to expand the article. I also see no reason to use ref 6 (thesis), though that's up to you. Artem.G (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC) I also think that the Moon should be capitalised, but it's up to you. Artem.G (talk) 19:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article is long enough, new enough, well-sourced, no copyvio according to Earwig. Photo is by NASA. Hook is interesting, and the only thing missing is QPQ. Once it's done, I will approve the nomination. Artem.G (talk) 19:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Otherwise: promoted to GA within the window and generally in good shape. Long enough and the hook is within bounds, cited interesting and generally good for the main page. No evident plagiarism, BLP or other issues. I can't actually see the word trousers in the article; is hakama a Japanese word for that? Would suggest getting the word sumo into the hook for those not familiar with the terminology. Two wise heads pinged above for a procedural question. UndercoverClassicistT·C 12:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello, thank you for your feedback. I've added the mention of sumo to the body of the hook. The word "trousers" can be found in the dedicated section ("Uniform"). Hakama are indeed what can be likened to traditional kimono trousers. I preferred to use the term trousers to raise more curiosity. - OtharLuin (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RoySmith and Theleekycauldron: This article has already appeared at DYK (in 2004), which flags red in the DYK checker: however, I can't actually see a rule anywhere that precludes a second appearance if the criteria have been met again.
Nor did I find any mention of a ban. However, the reference is now 20 years old (!) and the article no longer exists in its old form. However, I'll leave it to you to decide whether to refuse it if there is any doubt or if there is a body of opinion along these lines :) - OtharLuin (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To clarify, it is indeed in the rules that once an article has been featured on DYK, it cannot run again unless the previous version was since deleted as a copyvio. However, given that its first appearance on DYK was about 20 years ago, a very different time for both Wikipedia and DYK, not to mention being a long time ago, I wonder if an IAR exemption could be granted here. That, however, would require consensus at WT:DYK. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:15, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Would you like me to ask the question on the general Talk? - OtharLuin (talk) 15:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's a possible option but I'd also suggest asking RoySmith and Theleekycauldron. Is this your first DYK nomination? If it is, there might be the possibility of leeway given since sometimes we tend to be more lenient with newcomers. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:47, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A strict reading of the rules would preclude this article from running again, unfortunately. I wonder if now might be the time to try and carve out an exception. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure what qualifies me as somebody to ask about DYK rules. I usually just go with whatever Leeky says :-) RoySmith(talk) 01:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The two named users replied. As for the DYK nomination, yes, it's my first. The Yobidashi article is also the first I've worked on to achieve GA status. Given what you mentioned earlier and what Leeky mentioned about a good context for changing things, I asked the question about a possible rule change on the general Talk to allow more contributions to the discussion... - OtharLuin (talk) 08:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that after Nebraska State TreasurerJoseph S. Bartley was sentenced to twenty years in prison for embezzlement, he tried to have himself declared legally dead? Source: "A novel petition has been filed in the District Court by Joseph Bartley, ex-State Treasurer (...) The petition declares that Bartley cannot be sued, since he is dead, having been sentenced to the penitentiary for twenty years" NEBRASKA'S TREASURY LOSS.: The Thieving Treasurer Claims to be Legally Dead, in The New York Times, 1 Dec 1897; p. 10.
ALT2: ... that voice actress Mako Morino's stage name was inspired by a nickname for Sendai, a city near her native Tomiya, Miyagi? Source: Same as ALT1
Whilst this article is technically just long enough (1544 B of readable prose), I consider it still a stub. And we don't run stubs on DYK. You'd need to expand the article and give it some structure (e.g. headings and a lead). Schwede66 23:00, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Neutral: - I'm concerned about the word "dumping", both in the text and the article title. Yes, when it's deliberately done, then it's dumping. But it's a loaded term in the context of an overflow during a storm event. The Guardian, for example, use "discharge", which I suggest is more neutral. For that reason, I've struck ALT0.
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - no; please write "In 2022, a proposed House of Lords amendment to the Environment Bill would have forced water companies" in your own words
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Overall: No issues at all here. Happy to pass. However, although cited and I think it's interesting, I suggest putting in an ALT1 with another fact about this album. The fact it exists is interesting in itself but good to include something else. Also needs QPQ. Arcahaeoindris (talk) 16:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that William Aditya Sarana would be sworn in as a regional legislator in Jakarta, Indonesia, four days before graduating from university? Source: [24] - 30 August graduation date; [25] 26 August swearing in
interesting, properly cited with no copyvio concerns. new enough and long enough too. just need the qpq to accept — Karnataka 18:35, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Ludwig Grass(pictured) donated 20,000 guilders to build the first state secondary school in Liechtenstein? Source: "Eine höhere Lehranstalt in Liechtenstein wurde schon in den 1790er Jahren von den fürstlichen Beamten diskutiert und im Revolutionsjahr 1848 gefordert. Aber erst eine Privatinitiative von Ludwig Grass ermöglichte die Realisierung dieses Vorhabens: er schenkte dem Staat 1857 zur Gründung einer «Landesrealschule» 20 000 Gulden, worauf 1858 die zweijährige «Landeshauptschule» in Vaduz geschaffen wurde."
ALT1: ... that everyone left Liechtenstein for secondary schools until Ludwig Grass(pictured) donated 20,000 guilders to build one? Source: "Eine höhere Lehranstalt in Liechtenstein wurde schon in den 1790er Jahren von den fürstlichen Beamten diskutiert und im Revolutionsjahr 1848 gefordert. Aber erst eine Privatinitiative von Ludwig Grass ermöglichte die Realisierung dieses Vorhabens: er schenkte dem Staat 1857 zur Gründung einer «Landesrealschule» 20 000 Gulden, worauf 1858 die zweijährige «Landeshauptschule» in Vaduz geschaffen wurde."
Comment: Image is far from necessary, so feel free to disregard the notion of placing it with the hook if there's a better one to be placed instead. The second hook was suggested to me as an alternative.
... that Peckham Rock, a fake cave painting surreptitiously installed in the British Museum by Banksy, is actually concrete from Hackney? Source: Pyne, [26]: "the rock is actually from Hackney, not Peckham, to start with".
A North American PBJ-1D Mitchell of U.S. Marine Corps bombing squadron VMB-611 in flight.
... that VMB-611 was the only United States Marine Corps bombing squadron to operate in the Philippines during World War II? Source: Taken from Page 62 of Alan Carey's 2002 book "Leatherneck Bobmers: Marine Corps B-25/PBJ Mitchell Squadrons in World War II." From the book - "VMB-611 would become the only PBJ squadron to operate in the Philippines during the war and served under Marine Aircraft Groups Zamboanga (MAGSZAM)."
... that the AtariWriterword processor for the Atari 8-bit family sold over 800,000 copies, about one copy for every five machines sold? Source: compound hook, 800k from Furr, 4mm from roundup, applying CALC
ALT2: ... that the AtariWriter word processor for the Atari 8-bit family sold over 800,000 copies, on par with WordStar's 650,000 sales by the fall of 1983? Source: furr and Bergin
... that Walt Whitman's brain was donated to the American Anthropometric Society but was accidently destroyed? Source: ""The brain of Walt Whitman, together with the jar in which it was placed, was said to have been dropped on the floor by a careless assistant. Unfortunately, not even the pieces were saved." (Reference: Spitzka page 176) However, in his personal diary sometime between 1891 and 1893, Henry Ware Cattell confessed to accidentally allowing Whitman's brain to decompose during the preservation process by "not having the jar properly covered". (Reference: Gosline page 160)
ALT1: ... that members of the American Anthropometric Society agreed to donate their brains after their deaths for studies to correlate intelligence with brain size? Source: Members agreed to donate their brains after their deaths for analysis by living members of the organization in order to correlate intelligence and other mental qualities with brain morphology. (Reference: Wright)
Promoted to Good Article on 1/4/24, DYK check reports over 10,000 characters, well cited, neutral, earwig reports violation unlikely, QPQ done, hook interesting, length checked ok.
@Etriusus: Question about wording: The citation does not state "only known plant" directly, the best I could find was "Unlike earlier mimicry reports ...". Is there another part of the report that supports the hook? Thanks, Zeete (talk) 12:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Zeete:, the source says "...B. trifoliolata is able to mimic several hosts. The imitation of several distinct models by a single species has been deemed particularly advantageous in light of frequency-dependent selection, evidence of such mimetic polymorphisms is rare and limited to butterfly species." Which is somewhat implicit in that the only other place memetic polymorphism is seen is in butterflies. That being said, I added another source that is more explicit, stating "Boquila trifoliolata—a vine native to the area that the research pair has discovered, is able to mimic multiple hosts—a first for the plant world... no plant has been known to be able to do so with more than one plant (mimetic polymorphism)." Thanks for reviewing!!! 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 03:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that though Augustine of Hippo is known for proposing the Augustinian hypothesis in his Harmony of the Gospels, later in the same work he claimed another view was "more probable"? Source: "That view is now sometimes called the "traditional Augustinian hypothesis," but that is not what Augustine himself claimed as his own, more probable, view of the interrelations of the Gospels." pp.84-86 (quote from bottom of 86)
Reviewed: [[]]
Comment: First DYK, no QPQ needed. The full quote from the hook source is quite long, so I was reluctant to put the whole thing. (It's all in the article, though it's sourced to different sources.) Let me know if I need to clarify. Alternate hooks welcome.
Comment: Personal challenges threw me for a loop and didn't let me finish my last nomination properly. I'm doing better for myself and wanted to get back into the Wiki loop so here we go, this is my first 5x expansion and I'll find a nomination to complete my QPQ within the hour. (UPDATE: Just finished my QPQ, there we go!)
ALT1: ... that 80% of independent American movie theatres were estimated by Filmack Studios to have screened Let's All Go to the Lobby? Source: as above
ALT2: ... that Let's All Go to the Lobby, a one-minute filmed advertisement, has been preserved by the US National Film Registry? Source: John Owens Chicago Tribune "It's one of the most iconic movies in American cinema history, despite its running time of less than one minute. [...] The Library of Congress also selected it for preservation in the U.S. National Film Registry in 2000 for its historical significance."
Comment: I'm honestly not sure if I've hit 5 DYKs, though I suspect I'm a bit ahead on reviews overall. Nonetheless, I'll review something tomorrow to be safe. (Done now).
Does the picture need cropped? If the template there is the same template DYK uses, I'd say it's pretty decent, but we could crop a bit from the right easy enough.
ALT1: ... that it took the King of Italy 22 years to decide whether France or Mexico owned Clipperton Island in the Pacific Ocean? Source: Nearly 22 years later on January 28, 1931 Victor Emmanuel rendered his decision awarding the island to France. "ITALY: Clipperton Island". Time. 1931-02-16. Retrieved 2024-01-06.
Overall: Cite your source for that quote in the sidebar (the one beginning with "There is no reason to suppose" and we'll be good. Aside from that: ALT1 is strongly preferable, I think. Article needed some polishing, which I have provided. Earwig says 2% similarity, which I think we can attribute to some direct quotes. DS (talk) 23:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
DragonflySixtyseven, thanks for the note and comments. I went ahead and fixed the sidebox issue and I've provided another source for the document. For whatever reason when I clicked the link it didn't load correctly for me. [29]Dr vulpes(Talk) 00:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that you should not have molly without some salt? Source: "Use shallow tanks with a sandy bottom. Vegetation is secondary. Water: pH 7.0- 8.2; hardness 10-40° dGH. Needs a low concentration of table salt." [30]
ALT1: ... that scientists cannot always tell whether the southern molly(male pictured) is native or invasive because it can move to islands on its own? Source: "given the euryhaline capacity of P. vivipara, a potential scenario of natural (passive or active) dispersal cannot be ruled out"[31]
ALT2: ... that in the southern molly, sexual selection favors smaller males (pictured) because they copulate by sneaking up to females? Source: "The males present consistently smaller means and variances than females, possibly because of selection for small males in opportunistic matings."[32]
Comment: I present the newest instalment in my quirky/punny fish hook series. Should this one prove objectionable, two alternative hooks and a photo are provided.
... that Franz Jakob Späth's fortepianos were a favorite of Mozart, but refused by Beethoven? Source: "This time I shall begin at once with Stein’s pianoforte. Before I had seen any of his make, [Franz Jakob] Späth’s claviers had always been my favorites." Pollens, Stewart (2022). A history of stringed keyboard instruments. Cambridge University Press. p. 387. ISBN978-1-108-42199-7., "the instrument was not to his mind. It was a Flügel by Spath and in Bonn he is accustomed only to play upon one by Stein", "Junker's account suggests that Beethoven improvised on that very instrument in spite of his possible reservations. " Skowroneck, Tilman (2000). "The Keyboard Instruments of Young Beethoven". In Burnham, Scott; Steinberg, Michael P. (eds.). Beethoven and His World. Princeton University Press. p. 162–163. ISBN9780691070735.
Reviewed:
Comment: I have not made any DYK nominations previously ([33]), so I believe I am exempt from the QPQ requirement. Thank you to User:Schminte who suggested this.
Comment: I believe ALT0 is factually inaccurate. Is there another source that verifies this? ––– GMH Melbourne (talk) 14:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Other problems: - The source provided does not explicitly identify the man in the photo as Mutch McKay's husband, which is a bit of a concern for me (it treads just a bit into WP:SYNTH territory in my eyes with the one provided). The source does not even mention the individual by name, nor does she get mentioned in the article either.
QPQ: Done.
Overall: Looking further, the article that does mention that is the Jan 7th Stuff article. I feel like there could be some potential improvement with the hook too, since I feel like a hook that simply discusses Mutch McKay's husband (potentially diminishing her) could be a bit of a wasted potential considering her body of work. It doesn't entirely draw one in to clicking the article. Potentially an alternative hook that could be provided that discusses her body of work is possible, though I am open for discussion, but at the moment I have some unease with the hook. Ornithoptera (talk) 05:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I feel as if with a DYK it doesn't matter too much whether it is about her or her husband. I do think that including her husband would make a much more interesting hook, but I agree with your sentiment. Here's ALT1:
"... that Jessica Mutch McKay hosted debates between the leaders of New Zealand's two major political parties?"
The article notes: "There is a veritable menagerie of animals including two elephants, a few goats and some chickens; an orchestra pit that turns into a river filled with actual water through which boats sail and fountains erupt; a huge cast of 150 performers togged out in 500 costume changes; and, inevitably, fireworks on stage and even in the theatre aisles."
The article notes: "Another challenging feature of the staging was the river, a channel of water running across the full length of the forestage, more than fifty meters in length."
Comment: I am using "was transformed" instead of "is transformed" because the sources are about the Bangkok cultural show, which shut down in 2021. The Phuket branch of the show is still running.
Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: [34]; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: [35].
Article meets new requirements at the time of nomination and is long enough. Citation is verifiable and I see no glaring errors in the article. Good work! I recommend ALT0, but suggest changing the details a bit to specify that the judge was related to the case (which makes the events more shocking): "that six years after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her mother and a judge involved with the case both committed suicide?" Panini! • 🥪 19:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
This one got bumped back at errors – ping when issues are resolved :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:36, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Done Toronto Sun and Fox News removed per above, and replaced refs with relevant sentences copyedited. As I predicted above, nothing much of substance was lost by doing this. However, the above ALT needs to be struck now, so may I offer a variation on ALT2: ... that a Las Vegas judge who was forced to resign over her involvement in the investigation of the shootings of Sydney Land and Nehemiah Kauffman was later found shot to death? https://www.ktnv.com/news/ex-las-vegas-judge-who-resigned-to-settle-ethics-probe-dies StonyBrook babble 11:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it's 198 now. Thanks for taking care of it. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 14:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- n
Article was moved to mainspace within 7 days of nomination. 1800 characters of prose. Earwig picked up 1% of copyright violation, making it unlikely. QPQ done. I'm not entirely sure about the image used; it's an unofficial creation using a free image of a firefighter, but it does illustrate an example. The first paragraph is mostly unsourced, unless the one source at the end of the paragraph is supposed to encompass it. ALT1 is a better hook due to it being more specific but I wonder if you can create another hook that is less subjective. lullabying (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Good to go. lullabying (talk) 08:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC).svg/20px-Blue_question_mark_(italic).svg.png)
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An interesting article covering the long history of this musical establishment in a balanced way (more coverage of recent history, and something on current operations, would be great, but do not interfere in the DYK consideration). New / submitted in good time, quite long enough, well-sourced but no plagiarism found. Hook fact checked - the whole hook-related section is cited to one good-length article, in Italian, which I have checked. The hook is a little long, but allowing for non-counting of the bolded link and {pictured}, passes. It could be abbreviated, if needed, by mentioning only the name, or the designation "art museum" for the alternative home, but I see why both are desired. The picture is valid and properly used. Best of luck! SeoR (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Seems good to go. AGF on print sources. lullabying (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@Tintor2 and Lullabying: per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, the article is required to be presentable before an appearance on the main page; however, it is full of spelling, puncutation, and grammar mistakes. The opening paragraph of the body, for example, is near-incomprehensible. Take the first sentence alone:
Seeing no substantial effort to address AirshipJungleman29's now two-week-old concerns beyond my own close-paraphrasing removal, I am rejecting this nomination. Sorry. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
I've done some copyediting to address the close paraphrasing. That means that a new reviewer is needed to check for copyvio. Schwede66 22:48, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
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Comment: @BlueMoonset: From what I’m seeing, it tends to be the picture that causes the delay in review. I guess somehow the reviewers are having higher expectations for articles with a picture. If that’s the case, I want to let you know that I’m fine with the article being promoted without the picture. Thanks! Đại Việt quốc (talk) 11:23, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this article is not eligible for DYK. It was neither created nor expanded over five times its previously existing length within five days of nomination. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hello, thank you for your feedback. I've added the mention of sumo to the body of the hook. The word "trousers" can be found in the dedicated section ("Uniform"). Hakama are indeed what can be likened to traditional kimono trousers. I preferred to use the term trousers to raise more curiosity. - OtharLuin (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
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